Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Brian, Blake is in the process of writing his in-depth scouting reports on the new pitching prospects. Isn’t this really a major part of the problem? All those involved with Blake have proven, they are not good judges of prospect pitching talent. They are making their decisions on the money that would need to be spent to acquire impact pitchers and simply are not going to do it. Their Cardinals Way is impact position players supported by an average pitching staff and most likely make it to the playoffs since they are in a very weak division. Doesn’t dawn on them that the reason we usually make a quick exit from the playoffs is due to lack of pitching. Does no good to score 5-6 a game when you are giving up 6-7 . Equates to a loss no matter how you look at it.
bccran my friend, you have never heard me complaining about position players as we do do a great job seeing talent there. They simply do not possess that same talent recognition when it comes to seeing pitching potential. Haven’t for a good many years now, even before Mo. As I believe you like to say, prove is in the stats. When was the last time we really had a marquee pitcher, be honest now.
We accomplished nothing, D report card at best, got rid of apples and simply got apples in return. Quit using the free agent thing as an excuse as we constantly do. I know a few of you (hard to believe it would be most though) will disagree with my assessment and fire posts back at me that we did well to get pitching prospects. Problem with this is, we have a history of not being able to judge pitching prospects (position players yes, pitching NO) for the most part and if by a miracle we did judge it this time, the pitching prospects are not going to help us for 2-3 years at best and if they don’t pan out, right back to square one which is the scenario we have been repeating for years now. Some will disagree but in order to truly move forward and be serious WS contenders again, Mo needs to be fired but we all know this is not going to happen. His recent dealings have made the DeWitt’s happy once again. It’s all about the $$ now and not the fans anymore. Sure would be helpful to have an actual Bonafide pitching coach as well. As far as Marmol, will give him a pass to this point as you can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear. Give him the players and if he can’t win with them, he needs to go like all the other coaches in baseball are subject to. But then again, the DeWitt’s play a role there as well and gave him his chance and I’m sure his salary is minimal at best, so all works out, right ? Going to be a very frustrating 2-3 years, longer if our gamble as the future doesn’t happen. If we keep filling those seats guys, nothing is going to change!! I’d wager Goldy is gone next year at some point in the season.
Just making an assessment based off the last 12 years of non-results. They do not draft top level pitchers as they simply do not want to spend the money, it’s a philosophy that has proved for a long time now doesn’t work. Any other team that was serious about actually contending for a WS title, would fire Mo and his philosophy. But Mo works out for the DeWitt’s who are in it for the money, if we happen to win with what we have, great, if not, we draw the second most fans in the NL each year and that translates to profits when your payroll is low. Been a Cardinals fan my whole life and not much as far as a win philosophy has changed. If we win with what we put out there, good deal, if not, we tried.
Even if the top-rated pitchers are gone by the time they draft, they simply lack the ability to be able to see potential talent in pitchers. Cardinals with pitchers are like the Bears with quarterbacks, with the exception of a few great pitchers we have had in the franchise, we honestly have not really had very many.
Well that philosophy is not working. If this is indeed Mo’s thought process and he cannot see that it is not working, he needs to go. Need to change philosophy !
As for judging pitching, the last 12 years speak for themselves. Average pitchers’ equal average outcome. Time will tell and I’m just suggesting I think I will be the guy able to say, told you so nothing has changed.
We will have to agree to disagree here. Mo has not shown one ounce of knowing what is takes when it comes to pitchers. Position players yes (and even then, that is questionable at times), pitchers NO! As long as we keep filling the seats, nothing is going to change. The Cardinal Way is no longer working. Nice guys finish last.
Has a track record that he indeed will. Doesn’t recognize pitching talent standing right in front of him. He has got to go for us to move forward.
In our top 30 prospects means nothing as we have been proving we are not good judges of pitching talent. Position players yes, pitching NO ! As long as we keep filling the seats, nothing is going to change. The Cardinal Way is no longer working. Nice guys finish last.
As long as we keep filling the seats, nothing is going to change. The Cardinal Way is no longer working. Nice guys finish last.
Prospects are just that prospects, and to my point, Mo and his group stink at judging pitching prospects. Position players, they do a great job, pitching NO. You have to have Impact pitching to be a serious contender today. As long as we keep filling the seats, why would they change. We need a whole new vision on how to become serious WS contenders again.
No risk No reward ! So sad that the DeWitt’s treat the fans( 2nd best attendance in NL) this way. Maybe the only way they get the message is if we stop going to the games like we did in the 70’s. This moneyball theory of running the team doesn’t work. Any other team would be firing Mozeliak.
Not doubting Flores ability to recognize position players but has failed seeing this in pitchers which is unsettling since he was a pitcher. He is probably strapped because of the almighty dollar as we all know, really good pitching comes at a cost.
Yes, the fact that we have sub-par pitching for at least the last 10 years thus not seriously contending for a WS title.
Scouting and player development of pitchers is what I have referred to in all my posts, not position players. Cardinals Front Office has failed in this part of their scouting and development plain and simple. If you been watching the games you can see the offensive players producing runs and then hang their heads when pitching fails to do their jobs. More noticeable this year as we did absolutely nothing to improve the staff, but this lack of talent development has been going on for years. In fact, remarkably over the years its nothing short of phenomenal that we have been as successful as we have as we have only had a real handful of really good pitchers in the last say 50 years
Unfortunately, administration doesn’t see it. Hasn’t for years now . It’s all about the money . Why would a team that will place second in attendance in the NL at seasons end, spend anymore money. It is really unfortunate. The only way this team is going to chance and want to be contenders again, is if we stop going to games and show them our disapproval for the product they are trying to sell us.
Unfortunately, no one other than us seem to be concerned . We draft yet another outfielder as our first pick ??????????? Flores needs to be fired as well
The winning streak of winning our division is too impressive as we are in the weakest division in the NL. Plus, I wouldn’t consider it successful just to make the playoffs and get beat right away more times than not. Which gets back to my point of this posts is that we get eliminated right away most times due to pitching and I must confess have never seen a team who’s bats go cold more times than not in the playoffs.
Offense not the problem but for occasional slumps like all teams. Pitching, pitching, pitching is the problem and we seem to do nothing about it year after year after year. If we think we are good at developing minor league pitching talent, prove is in the pudding, they are not good at it. Fire Mozeliak, Girsch & Flores and let a new team with pitching knowledge try to right the ship. Real problem is ownership though, with a team that draws the second most fans in the NL, why would you think anything was wrong as I’m sure they all sit back and say, its hard to win a WS and we are trying our best. My whole point I guess is I do not see you are trying your best. All your decisions are based off $$
Amen, other than we will not win the division. Everyone else has proven thus far, they are better than us. Maybe need to finish last for management to realize they do not have a grip on what it takes to be a serious contender, but even then, I doubt it. Fans need to make a statement and quit being the number two attendance franchise in the NL. Perhaps that may work when you affect their revenue.