- This topic has 25 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated 3 years ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Pitching, Pitching, Pitching . Am I the only one on the planet that believes we do not have a World Series qualifying competitive pitching staff? This has been for years now and those responsible for not recognizing it and or developing it, needs to be responsible. Given this, in order to get back to a real possibility of competing for another World Series title, you have to (a must) fire:
first and foremost, Mozeliak then all the following as well, clean house
Girsch
Blake
MarmolIf not, it is only going to yield what it has been for awhile now, early playoff losses, which this year we will not even quality for.
, Pitching, Pitching . Am I the only one on the planet that believes we do not have a World Series qualifying competitive pitching staff? This has been for years now and those responsible for not recognizing it and or developing it, needs to be responsible. Given this, in order to get back to a real possibility of competing for another World Series title, you have to (a must) fire:
What would you like them to do? It’s not like this team is on the cusp of a playoff bid currently.
Your thoughts aren’t unoriginal. I mean they haven’t been to the World Series in a few years. NLCS in 2019. Wouldn’t nessisarly blame the rotation for that debacle. The 2 young guns flat out didn’t get it done and the offense did it’s part to be about as bad as you can be.
They’ve had a system in place for a long time that it’s easier and less costly to develop the pitching within the organization. Quite simply it appears that has taken a hit due to a couple guys not panning out and other things especially this season with some of the new rules and guys not getting done both in the rotation and bully.
If your idea is to spend, spend, spend or gut the farm system. Then you obviously known for YEARS that they aren’t going to do that. Plus with the Bally’s issue over them they really don’t know what they’ll have to spend.
Understand your frustration. However, IMO, blame rests more with Front Office. They have really dropped the ball here.
First, I’ve given up on this season, even if they snuck into the playoffs, they don’t have the pitching to have a chance.
Second, I’ve been preaching for two top tier starters (plural) for years. Mikolas is not a #2 and definitely not a #1. Libby would be a fine #5.
– Matz does not deserve a spot
– No Milb players seem readyThe following need to be moved at the deadline, either for prospects to move for pitching or controlled pitching: Flaherty, Montgomery, Stratton, Verhagen, Hudson (if healthy), Oneill (if healthy), Baker, Yepez and Gomez
For the right pitcher: Edman, Donovan, Carlson, Herrera are all on the table
Offense not the problem but for occasional slumps like all teams. Pitching, pitching, pitching is the problem and we seem to do nothing about it year after year after year. If we think we are good at developing minor league pitching talent, prove is in the pudding, they are not good at it. Fire Mozeliak, Girsch & Flores and let a new team with pitching knowledge try to right the ship. Real problem is ownership though, with a team that draws the second most fans in the NL, why would you think anything was wrong as I’m sure they all sit back and say, its hard to win a WS and we are trying our best. My whole point I guess is I do not see you are trying your best. All your decisions are based off $$
So, do you think we should keep the win now guys? Goldschmidt and Arenado? If so, why?
Yes. We are in a weak division. If the Cardinals actually had two front-of-the-rotation starters and two effective relievers, we’d be good this year.
There is no help for this team in Memphis for next year. The Cardinals are going to have to spend in the offseason to avoid a repeat of this year.
LA,
So if Bill had spent another 70mil this season, “we’d be good this year”.
A pair of 25mil SP’s, and a pair of 10mil relievers. Fair enough?Back to the “win now guys”. Bill likes offense, he’s a fan too, and offense sells tickets. But if you can’t pitch…
Since I don’t see Bill bumping payroll by 70mil, we have a roster construction dilemma.
The current construction is a fail. But, if they sold off Arenado and Goldy, and they won’t, we’d have a decent enough core of position players to compete offensively, which would allow the trade returns and budget space to rebuild the pitching staff.
It’s not happening, but I’d endorse a better balanced roster. This isn’t hindsight from my chair, and the regulars know it.
I wouldn’t dump both Goldy and Arenado. If forced to choose I would keep Goldy for a couple of reasons. First I think he is the better player of the two and secondly we already have the ideal internal candidate for 3B in Gorman.
But I suspect they will keep both Goldy and Arenado, deal away some players who aren’t in the plans for next year and try to make a few additions. The Cardinals have never been an organization who makes big changes. They nibble here and there, make incremental changes, and take the path of least resistance. If that philosophy is going to change I will believe it when I see it.
Gorman and Walker are both out of position. Pick one for 1B and one for 3B. We have the replacements ready for the “win now guys”.
Well, I’m not so sure. This ownership has made some big changes that were pretty abrupt. Jocketty was unexpectedly fired out of nowhere for what was termed diviseveness. And no one really envisioned Shildt being dispatched for not being entirely in line with Voltaire. And before this ownership group, Herzog just decided to quit. Those were pretty big changes.
Well that would be three big changes in the last 33 years. Not exactly an aggressive pace but yes they happened.
But anyway to jettison Goldy and/or Arenado would signal that the Cardinals are entering some kind of rebuild and I don’t think they have the stomach for that.
Bill doesn’t have the stomach for top end FA SP’r contracts either, so the offseason will likely be just as disappointing as this season.
Yeah, and no players involved. I just thought they were big changes not only because they were abrupt, but also because the team was performing well and the reasons were obscure with both Jocketty and Schildt. Whitey just up and quit. I always liked Herzog, but I also always thought he should have bucked up and waited until that ’90 season was over before packing it in. I also think it’s interesting that he never again managed a Big League team and I’ve often wondered if quitting may have tarnished his reputation among owners and GM’s at the time.
Cardinals are 8 back. In ’11 they were 8.5 back of a WC in late August and I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t sure they were done at the time…Haha! I should also say that they had Pujols, Molina, Berkman, Holliday and Carpenter at the time…
Pugs, If I knew we could pitch, as the priority, I would endorse a farmhand position player roster, no mercenaries. It’s what the org does best, develop position players.
L Nootbaar RF
L Donovan 2B
R Walker 1B
L Gorman 3B
R Baker DH
S Carlson CF
L Burleson LF
R Knizner C
S Edman SSR Herrera C
R Gomez OF
R Mercado OF
R Winn UIThe lineup lacks stars right? Timely hitting comes and goes.
Of those 2011 stars you mentioned above, you left out the NLCS and WS MVP (Freese). Timely hitting doesn’t have to be a star.
The above 13 position players would use 18mil of next seasons budget.
It’s a decision to invest heavily in the lineup, or the pitching staff. This seasons results answer whether the current roster construction is correct.
Freese certainly went wide open full throttle in the ’11 post-season, but his impact was felt only after the regular season had been decided. Also, a couple of good Redbird trivia stumpers are that Molina led all Cardinals in RBI’s, with 9, and Berkman led all Cardinals in hits, with 11, in the ’11 WS.
Two reasons to still have faith in the Cardinals and two to give up https://t.co/joqJ5Oz10A
— viva el birdos (@vivaelbirdos) June 18, 2023
gsc… this VEB story says it all. Especially his take on the FO’s responsibility without ever taking the blame.
If we took all of the deals since say 2019, I wonder what the WAR acquired versus WAR given up would be. Goldy and Arenado would be major plusses, but most everything else is a minus. Plus Goldy and Arenado are relatively old, while a lot of the good players we gave up are young. So the +\- could very well keep going more towards the minus side as the seasons progress.
The thing about Mo is he is riding a big winning streak. Our club has been competitive every year until this one, so he has built a lot of goodwill. It will take a few losing seasons and some glaringly bad deals before he is jettisoned.
You’d have to go back to at least 2017, when the Ozuna trade occurred. Otherwise, the Cards should be on top. None of the guys who went to COL in the Arenado trade have done much, for example.
The biggest item in Mo’s winning streak may be his recent contract extension through 2025. We know how ownership deals with contracts – they let them play out – unless the situation is really bad.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.