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Even when we trade value, like Edman, we just end up getting somebody else’s rubble.
What Mo had to trade was a half season rental of an injured super UT. What ‘value’ is he supposed to get for that? If Edman had been healthy and had put up an impressive first half as an everyday starting center fielder, that would be different. The fact is we didn’t, and don’t, have much value to offer.
ZTR, I would put Burleson, Herrera and Pages into the ‘we know what we’ve got’ catagory. Two defensive liabilities who can hit, and a back up catcher. It seems like it would be a reasonable idea to put Herrera in the everyday DH slot and see what he looks like over 600 PAs.
I would not put Winn into that category until we see what he does this season. The reason being the Cardinals have had a problem with guys looking like a future star for a season and then begin to decline.
What if we were the buyers trying to acquire Helsley in trade? Who within the org is equal value in trade?
Good question jj. When we traded for Jordan Montgomery, we were looking at a year and a half of control and it cost us our starting center fielder who was out with a significant injury and had not much period of control left, IIRC. It seems like one year control of a top closer might be comparable. What do we have comparable to an injured starting center fielder of Bader quality with not much control period left?
Bling: Mo had the value already in his pocket. Nobody forced him to trade Edman. The Value was to wait three or four more weeks to complete recovery and end up with a fine baseball player. Instead he rushed off to make a trade for reasons known only to him to him. The result is now the Dodgers have that fine versatile ballplayer and the Cardinals have squat.
Nonetheless, I am delighted for Edman. He is now making a decent buck and playing for a winner. Good on ya Tommy.
JJ, I would think maybe Nootbaar would be a comp. Maybe we could get back a Nootbaar. Solid defender, good for 110 or so games, bat 7th. 6th on our team. 3 years of control.
CiF, if Mo had not traded Edman, what we would have right now is nothing. He would have played out his last arb year in 2024 and would now be a FA looking to sign somewhere for a big contract. As it is, we have Fedde, which is something.
The Cardinals didn’t trade Edman to receive maximum value although they probably thought they would get more out of Pham and Fedde and perhaps they will with Fedde. They traded him to avoid his final year of arbitration salary. It was a foreshadowing of what was to come with Goldy, Lynn, Gibson, Middleton, Kitty, and most likely Helsley and Arenado.I think they knew that a rebuild was on the horizon and they got an early start.
I view 2025 as basically six months of spring training so I am tempering my expectations.
Yes, the key for all of us in 2025 is keep our expectations low (which the FO is trying mightily to engender) and ye shall not be disappointed. Rah Cardinals anyway!
At this point, the Cardinals should be trying to make trades based on getting rid of poor positional fits and low quality players than getting rid of salaries or shedding salary. They should also consider trading pieces with short term control if they can get a good haul in return. It’s time to get back to the basics of how to build a team, not save money.
For what it’s worth, the Athletic called out MLB’s 10 worst contracts and also listed seven runners up. The worst is Anthony Rendon with the Angels. Refreshingly, no Cardinals were listed.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5960659/2024/12/02/mlb-worst-contracts-rankings-2024/
I would not put Winn into that category until we see what he does this season. The reason being the Cardinals have had a problem with guys looking like a future star for a season and then begin to decline.
Bling you are so right. The list is long and we know the culprits. Hopefully Winn breaks that trend and he stays around until DeWitt will have to pay him real$$$.
I view 2025 as basically six months of spring training so I am tempering my expectations.
gsc…. I’m tempering my expectations for the next 24/30 months. Its become too painful otherwise.
TCN is one of the very best forums for following the Cardinals minor leaguers, due to BW. The Cardinal fans’ spotlight will now be on the development system and how guys learn with updated technology and improved instruction. I’m sure BW is very happy about that.
Thank you for the nice comments, bccran. Time will tell if the new focus will help business. The dip in the MLB team’s fortunes in recent years has been felt everywhere that touches the team I imagine, including here. So an upturn would be welcomed.
I am doing my part in 2025. For the first time, I will be down in Florida for two months starting right after Winter Warm-Up. So whatever changes are evident on the back fields, I will be there to share it with our loyal subscribers, whose support I greatly appreciate and never take for granted.
Brian –
That’s great to hear! I’m looking forward to a third party prospective with boots on the ground. It will be interesting to see the changes around approach, fitness training, equipment, coaching techniques, etc. I’m curious if it’ll be one size fits all for position groups or if they individualize everything.
As a long-time Cardinal media personality, how much access do they give you? I know you get some interview time with select players as we’ve seen. Do you get to tour the clubhouse and talk to players and coaches behind the scenes at all? Does anyone get allowed any kind of access like that? Are there regular media Q&A’s where members of the media get to ask a few questions of whomever the Cardinals put in front of you that day? I’m just curious how it all works. On one hand, it’s Spring Training camp and I could see that being a bit more lax, but on the other hand, the Cardinals are a professional sports team with a very important image and brand to protect so they might only allow planned/scripted communications.
jnevel asked:
1) Do you get to tour the clubhouse and talk to players and coaches behind the scenes at all? Does anyone get allowed any kind of access like that?
2) Are there regular media Q&A’s where members of the media get to ask a few questions of whomever the Cardinals put in front of you that day?
The answers are different between MLB and minor league camp. Remember that MLB camp is very large to start, with the entire 40-man roster plus several dozen non-roster invitees. So many of the top prospects are with the major leaguers. It can make for a crowded clubhouse, though it thins out through March.
1) The MLB clubhouse is open to the credentialed media during specified periods in the morning as well as after games. There is plenty of informal discussion. Players will also do interviews upon request, but they have to be done around their work schedules, which are posted along with lineups, etc…
2) The manager meets with the media (usually on the field) each morning for Q&A. This is the source of much of the camp news that you read about. (Due to a desire to be first with the news, some writers are actually tweeting while Marmol is still talking.) The manager also has a shorter session in his office after the game. Usually, the day’s starting pitcher is also made available afterward. Others can be approached informally, but (not surprisingly) they tend to be focused on getting showered and out of there.
On the other hand, the minor league clubhouse is closed. So those interactions are far less structured, which is why information is scarcer. However, players and coaches are on the field more than the major leaguers so opportunities always present themselves. As you would expect, media has better access than the fans. But during the designated times when the gates are open, fans can get closer to the minor leaguers than they can with the big boys. Families are a regular fixture at minor league workouts and games (as are the ever-present autograph dealers). But everyone has to respect that the players and coaches are working.
Walker, Pages, Pallante, and probably Winn only because we have no one even close to ready to backfill. I can’t think of a 5th player.
But this is purely based on the economic principle of buy low/sell high. I’d hate to lose Donnie Baseball or Noot, but we’d at least be getting good value for them now.
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