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Did Mo or anyone else say that Contreras would be the everyday 1B in 2025? I don’t think so. He said that he would get time at 1B and DH. We don’t know what the percentages will be. My guess is that he gets more time at DH but we will see. I don’t view the Contreras signign as a big mistake. $18M per year for his bat is not that bad. I’m sure they would have traded him this winter if they could have but if he wants to stay in STL then good for him. I am glad that players want to be here. And I have no problem turning over the C duties to Herrera and Pages for 2025. We aren’t competing for a division title in my mind so let’s see what the younger guys can do.
Derrick Goold of all people had a good point in one of his most recent articles the other day when he said that some of the younger Cardinal players might perform better in 2025 because the expectations are going to be lower. Most rational fans realize that 2025 is not going to be a year for a division title or World Series appearance so maybe the younger guys won’t press as much and can just go out and play looser. There is merit to that argument.
The 2023 lack of starting pitching was not a surprise for everyone. Many are still enjoying Willsons bat, at the expense of pitching.
I don’t think they would have spent the money from Contreras on pitching.
The biggest issue is they don’t try to get better at the margins every year. When your philosophy is “just be good enough”, you are bound to fail. It was amazing they got away with it as long as they did.
If Wainwright and Contreras are not signed for 23′, and instead a couple starters on 2yr deals are, does the FO feel the need to extend Mikolas for 2025?
Fix the pitching was right.
They extended Mikolas because they only had one starter for the upcoming year. They have shown over the last few years to be incredibly shortsighted.
So when you invest in a bat and a dead end has-been, instead of re-inforcing the rotation, they feel forced to extend Mikolas for 2025.
Lol, so now Willson and Mikolas can both let their NTC’s ride the payroll, while the FO wants to go in a reset direction! You reap what you sow! O my.
I don’t know what today’s market looks like (or even tomorrow’s for that matter) but isn’t there a REAL every day first baseman out there somewhere we could acquire and quit trying to fill in the jigsaw with available spare pieces?
There are everyday 1B out there (Goldy, Rizzo, C. Walker, Alonso) but I don’t think the Cardinals have much interest in adding salary during a reset year.
This A’s writer looks at a potential deal for Steven Matz. He suggests that for the A’s to take on the Matz contract the Cardinals would need to attach Chase Davis or Michael McGreevy in exchange for OF Esteury Ruiz.
I think it would be better for the Cards to pay down some of the Matz contract instead of giving up Davis or McGreevy.
There is a lot of nonsense being slung around the blogosphere this winter.
Some guy has a Redbird Rants out arguing the Cards should have had Herrera catching everyday instead of Pages and they just have to play Herrera at catcher this year because we just have to get his bat in the lineup. Never mind that wedging flawed players into the lineup is a losing proposition and no, his arm is not going to get magically better after all this time. This guy is playing game console baseball.
Then this A’s article linked above talking about bundling top prospects to move underwater contracts. No, Mo won’t be bundling Davis or McGreevy. If necessary, he will move somebody off the ML roster or Gorman, or else second tier prospects much further away. Mo and Bill are not going to be stubbornly clutching the guys we’ve been losing with while trading off the future. A guy with two or three years of control is not really going to be part of that future. A guy with five or six could be.
As to Herrera, what happened last year is we thoroughly established that he is not a catcher and failed to establish that he can play any other position. A fine job of minimizing his value. Another feather in Mo’s cap.
It has also occurred to me that it would have been smart to have Arenado play a half dozen or so games at 1B. Enough to generate some video to give the lame sounding 1B narrative a bit of pop. That would have been thinking ahead, though. That might be feather worthy, too, considering Mo gets paid to think of stuff.
Bling, a more likely scenario is that the Cardinals send cash and a low level prospect to whomever gullible enough to take on Matz.
While rivals shop, Cardinals trade past expectations for future considerations. But why now? https://t.co/2DL06L8XFV
— STLToday Sports News (@STL_SportsNews) November 29, 2024
Matz was a bad deal all around. You cant even beg people to take him. Def dont send a possible good pitcher just to move him. Either take the money hit and release him or put him so far down the roster that he never sees the field, maybe he will leave on his own
Matz could be a contract year pitcher….his last year in Toronto was his best year, and the cardinals bit off that year….maybe he throws out a decent first half and they can trade him for something at the deadline….if he is awful in spring or hurt they should just DFA him and eat the last $12 million
Pitchers
Sonny Gray – Trade I if possible, if they are really going the cheap route.
Erick Fedde – Keep at least until trade deadline.
Andre Palante – Keep
Ryan Helsley – Trade now. Can’t afford risk of injury or bad half year.
Matthew Liberatore – Keep, still hasn’t turned 25. Rushed to majors to quickly in my opinion.
Steven Matz – Trade for a Class A lottery type, even if throwing in cash. Can’t stay healthy.
Michael McGreevy – Keep
Miles Mikolas Trade with cash for a Class A lottery ticket type. Innings eater for someone.Catchers
Wilsson Contreras – Keep, unless a really good offer. I don’t believe Herrera can be a starter. Not sure they didn’t move him to 1st to see if he would be willing to agree to a trade.
Iván Herrera – Trade. Excellent bat and trade value is high, but DH is only other position. 55 steals given up only 4 caught, YIKES.
Pedro Pagés = BackupInfielders
Nolan Arenado – Trade for prospects if possible. Throw in cash to get better quality.
Nolan Gorman- What is his trade value. If still decent prospects I would trade, but only to AL.
Thomas Saggese – Keeper, part of the future. Hopefully a cheaper Donovan.
Brendan Donovan – Keeper unless a couple really good prospects coming back
Masyn Winn _ Current face of the franchise.Outfielders
Alec Burleson – I would trade him, though I know others wouldn’t.
Lars Nootbaar – I would trade. Still has a LOT of value, but too injury prone. Can’t let him become O’Neil where value drops.
Michael Siani – Keeper for now. Too good as a cheap 4th outfielder/defensive replacement. Now if he can figure out hitting.
Jordan Walker -Wouldn’t trade unless overwhelmed and then only to an AL team. Like Liberator, rushed to the majors, still a kid.All of the posts on these Cardinal fora lately focus on trade trade trade and who we should get rid of. Almost nothing is about who we should be seeking in these exchanges. A trade suggests you give something and get something back. But apart from talk about nameless “prospects” I see few thoughts on who these might be, or what precisely we should be going after in prospective trades. We already have a handful of “prospects” who have so far been less than stellar. I’d hate to think we are going to acquire more of the same.
I am not sure what you are wanting CiF. We aren’t going to be trading for somebody’s top prospect, or guys in the top group on the MLB top prospects list. What are we supposed to know about some high ceiling, high risk A level guy in some other organization? Or somebody’s promising AA outfielder? It is not us fans that has an analytics department full of wonks and computers to figure out who are the diamonds buried in someone else’s organization. Anybody out there you’ve heard of is not going to be part of the reset.
We want to get value back, but I think the primary reason for trades is to clear unproductive or pointless payroll, and move out flawed players and others who are not going to be part of a future winning roster. We are not looking at putting together a team for next year or the year after that even. We have no outfielders who are productive and durable. We have no corner infielders. We have no catcher. We have part of a rotation, hopefully. No closer probably. We are not filling holes, we are clearing away rubble.
To me, the idea that the younger players might play looser (and better) on a team with lower expectations could be this year’ version of “The younger players might play looser (and better) with stronger veteran leadership”.
It seems unavoidable that the 2025 team will begin the season with less talent than the 71 win 2023 team, and there is likely to be no substantive reason to expect the 2024 run differential (equating to 76 Pythagorean wins) to improve. So, from a start point of, say, 70-75 wins, intangibles could help or hurt. A tailwind makes a 500ish season reachable. A headwind makes it a long and ugly slog.
Bling: I’m all for clearing out our rubble, especially our more expensive rubble, and goodness knows there is some unproductive rubble needing a shove, but what value are we expecting in return? Even when we trade value, like Edman, we just end up getting somebody else’s rubble.
2025 seems to offer a wide range of outcomes from a 65 win trip to the cellar to an 85 win wild card slot.
I agree with Bling in that most of the team’s positions are unsettled as to how the players will perform, which players will hold down the positions – or both.
I think his analogy of this season being used to ‘clear away the rubble’ is accurate and I would add that it will also be used to find out what we have in the younger guys we’re keeping.
This is the year for Nootbar, Walker, Gorman, Siani, Burleson, Pages, Herrera, Saggesse, and to some extent Scott to earn spots moving forward.
I think we know what we have with Contreras, Donovan and Winn. (I also think we desperately need an outfielder that can hit. The guys slotted to play are as weak a bunch collectively as I can recall.)
The starting pitching is a disaster in my opinion with only McGreevey and Pallante as possible future pieces. All the others are either too old or not good enough to build around.
We know that Mikolas and Matz are only here another year due to their contracts.
The pen will probably be solid against but if Helsley is dealt then Romero is your closer? Lol.
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