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This owner, who is more engaged than most of his peers, is as responsible as his people.
This makes the most sense. I believe Brian is saying most of the poor decisions are at the least a corraboration of Jr and Mo. And we know whose vote carries the most weight. He isn’t going to fire himself for those decisions. Or Mo.
Maybe Mother bling should have named me brokenrecordboy.
Here is what I posted on the ‘What’s it gonna take to fix the Cardinals’ thread last year, on June 5, 2023:
“I’ve been harping on it for years, mostly with pretty intense blowback. Mo’s been surviving on momentum ever since Luhnow and the smart computers left town. His wonky gaggle of front office pukes have run off everybody who knew what they were doing. Nothing but Marmol-like drones all up and down the organization. They have run the whole organization off a cliff and hastened the end of life as we know it.”
Bling I say this-your posts are always an interesting read.
” His wonky gaggle of front office pukes have run off everybody who knew what they were doing.” Hall of fame quote right there.“At the end of the day, the Cardinals are probably what we thought they were at the beginning of the season. Most people thought the Cardinals would be around a .500 club, at best. That looks accurate.”
I can’t agree with this statement.
On Opening Day, the Cardinals were in fact co-favorites (with the Cubs) for the division title, per the professional betting lines. Those two franchises were 2-1, the Reds were 5-2, the Brewers were 7-1 (wish I’d bet more than 10 bucks), and the Pirates who cares?Also, the Cards’ over/under line was 86 wins. So they were not supposed to be “.500 at best.” They were supposed to contend for the division title. Just like they were supposed to contend for the division last year.
Bob – back on March 24, 2024, you indicated you felt the Cardinals would finish 4th in the division with a record of 77-85.
I have searched several threads, and the overwhelming majority of posters at the beginning of the season predicted the Cardinals would be .500 at best, and you predicted them with a losing record. I only saw one poster predicting we would have more than 84 wins (up until the recent 90 win over/under thread).
I have searched several threads, and the overwhelming majority of posters at the beginning of the season predicted the Cardinals would be .500 at best, and you predicted them with a losing record. I only saw one poster predicting we would have more than 84 wins (up until the recent 90 win over/under thread).
LAC
I didn’t post in the prediction thread but did you find anything remotely with a prediction from me? IIRC I may have posted that the Cubs were the class of the division and the Cardinals would stick around until the last week in the division race. That was my general feelings as the old road to a playoff bid. Boy I was wrong but 82-83 wins seemed like a peak for this teams performance. Still a few games to go.
858booyah – No, I don’t see any predictions on this board. But you did question where Pham would sign in the offseason, and in April you indicated this season feels like 2023.
BDW is a baseball fan. He likes to win as much as anybody. But he also is a relatively conservative businessman. Especially at his age.
So his main goal is to make the playoffs, where anything can happen. Keep it interesting for the fans all season long. I’m sure he’s just as upset about 2023 and this season so far as anybody.I think BDW wants to win and he thinks he is spending enough to win. I think he thinks if people who work for him in the FO and on the field underperform, it doesn’t mean he should spend more to pick up the slack.
I’d say Jr.’s been around long enough to be aware that any baseball franchise that can attain 4 pennants and 2 championships in 30 years is a baseball franchise that’s been very successful. I’d guess he’s plenty satisfied with the manner in which his investment has flourished.
4pl pennants and two championships are good for most teams over 30 years but the cardinals have typically been a liitle better than that over their time. So to me he has underperformed. Just think if pujols hadnt of happened. My biggest issue isnt the spending though i think he could do better. My issue is mostly with player development. It is a mess. Players hit in minors, suddenly stop hitting with big club but go somewhere else and they start hitting. They have screwed walker up and they may screw up the top guy they got this year. If i was him, i would be vary wary of the staff up here.
Well actually if you look at it overall, its about normal for the cardinals. Just seenm worse living through it i guess. People talk about the 70s and 50s as not being good but if you take a look, we had some competitive seasons and pretty good win numbers, just those years there was no wild cards so you could win over 90 games and not make playoffs.
Cranny has a good take on BDW. His tenure has been a good one for the franchise, although things are regressing on the field in recent years.
Post mid-century, the Cardinals developed a wide ranging following in the Midwest and west being the western most franchise, then the only franchise between the Mississippi and the west coast. The Athletics in Kansas City were not a threat as they were a de facto Yankee farm club for many years.
When radio was king, the wide ranging KMOX signal and Bob Hyland’s management built a strong following. When Gussie Busch bought the club, the financial resources were almost endless.
After Gussie died the brewery had little interest in the ball club and things waned. The franchise went in to disrepair in the early ‘90s before DeWitt brought it back to prominence. Now his tenure is facing some challenges. Management’s short term philosophy of tweaking the team year-by-year has gotten to where the “future is now”, and “now” is crippled with aging highly paid players past their prime, and younger guys that have not developed as hoped.
I agree with bccran’s guess that BDW is likely very upset about the season. The big difference from everyone else is that he is the one who can take the most definitive actions to address it.
What we don’t know is how he feels about the decline over the last decade. This began long before 2023.
On the spending question, I’ve said this before. The Cardinals have lost ground in payroll spending compared to other teams. That could be ok IF the farm team was supplying a pipeline of MLB-ready talent to pick up the slack. However, that is no longer the case. The combination of lower (relative) spending and sputtering scouting and farm system is a huge factor in the multi-year decline in team competitiveness.
So, what will Bill do?
In regards to the last decade, the Cardinals have 4 produced first place finishes in their division including a 100 win season in ’15. That’s not horrible. The last 2 post-season games have been horrible and the last 2 seasons have been shameful but, in my view, the last 10 years haven’t been all that bad.
2015 was nine years ago. That is the point. Matt Carpenter and Lance Lynn are the only current players from that team. The other 24 guys are someone else.
They have won the division just twice in nine years and if this season continues, will have missed the playoffs in five of nine years.
Forget World Series. How many playoff series have they won in that time?
Well, since ’15 they’ve produced 2 first place division finishes and 2 NLWC berths. I’m nowhere near shiny happy people holding hands with the current state of affairs, but they haven’t been horrible until the little whiz-kid showed up and put his special brand of genius on display…”I’ll tell you that!”
We will have to agree to disagree. Missing the playoffs more than making it and even when they do, they exit immediately is VERY different from the prior years – a period BEFORE they added more wild cards.
If that isn’t a clear decline, I don’t know what to call it.
The longest championship drought I’ve experienced was 24 years. In the interim, the Cardinals won 3 NL pennants in ’85, ’87 and ’04. It ain’t easy to win a WS.
I’m not at all making an argument against a decline. I’m pointing out the fact that winning a WS is a tall order and doesn’t happen for some teams for an entire lifetime or more. No kidding.
I don’t think anyone on this site was hoping for this type of year for the Cardinals. Several have thrown in the towel for this year, even though they could still make the wildcard if they play a little better and things fall into place with other teams losing. While I still hold out a glimmer of hope, I have to admit it doesn’t look good and we could once again mis the playoffs. Shoot, we could end up below .500 this year again! With that in mind, is it too early to watch the standings hoping to get a chance at a low draft pick again? Please understand, I would rather the team righted the ship and this post forgotten. But what if, by some miracle, the Cards wound up hitting the lottery and could pick Ethan Holliday in next years draft? The odds against would be very high, but that sure would put a spark in the offseason this winter!
Just wishing out loud what came to my mind after the losses this past week.
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