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“‘Moneyball’ was proven to be a farce. People in the game know it was just a Hollywood thing; no one talks about the four starting pitchers they had. It was, you know, they embellished a lot of things to make it work, but most people in the game know it was complete fiction,” Showalter said.
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/moneyball-proven-farce-ex-mlb-manager-buck-showalter
Moneyball wasn’t the birth of obp, but a wonk in OAK did prove obp and slg are not equals, and for me, that was the theme of “Moneyball”.
The same wonk had a gm who couldn’t afford slg, so he bought into obp, out of necessity.
I wonder if Buck would prefer a .400 obp, or .400 slg%?
On the “Former Cardinals Thread” there was talk of the Cubs potentially having interest in signing Goldy. In my opinion there are three players on the Cardinal roster the Cubs could use more than Goldy.
Contreras
Helsley
ArenadoWould the Cardinals dare trade with their arch nemesis? There haven’t been many trades between the two over the years. Besides the famous Lou Brock trade the last major trade between the Cards and Cubs was Leon Durham and Ken Reitz for Bruce Sutter in 1980.
I will say the Cubs have a highly ranked farm system so there should be several players of interest. Mo would probably trade for Patrick Wisdom though.
Wasn’t sure where to put this so I will put it here. 2025 Draft Lottery odds. Unless we get really lucky we will probably get the 15th draft pick.
Rockies (61-101): 22.45%
Marlins (62-100): 22.45%
Angels (63-99): 17.96%
Nationals (71-91): 10.2%
Blue Jays (74-88): 7.48%
Pirates (76-86): 5.31%
Reds (77-85): 3.67%
Rangers (78-84): 2.45%
Giants (80-82): 1.9%
White Sox (41-121): Ineligible
A’s (69-93): Ineligible
Rays (80-82): 1.5%
Red Sox (81-81): 1.22%
Twins (82-80): 1.09%
Cardinals (83-79): 0.82%
Cubs (83-79): 0.68%
Mariners (85-77): 0.54%
Diamondbacks (89-73): 0.27%BDWIII mentioned prominently in the press conference the plans to enhance the gameday experience for fans in 2025. I guess if you aren’t going to play winning ball, you focus on entertaining the fans…
Make sure you enter that lottery, as the Bananas will surely draw at least 50,000! 😉
Go Bananas at Busch Stadium!
The Savannah Bananas are coming to St. Louis on April 4th & 5th!
More info & ticket lottery: https://t.co/Ruq1TXbr6b pic.twitter.com/iFQxjAAPWp
— St. Louis Cardinals (@Cardinals) October 4, 2024
I’m not opposed to the Bananas but – really???
Who do they play against? Is it like the Harlem Globetrotter and the Washington Generals?
Moneyball wasn’t the birth of obp, but a wonk in OAK did prove obp and slg are not equals, and for me, that was the theme of “Moneyball”.
The same wonk had a gm who couldn’t afford slg, so he bought into obp, out of necessity.
I wonder if Buck would prefer a .400 obp, or .400 slg%?
SLG…that isn’t necessarily true. Buck was spot on with his comments. What people fail to remember outside of those pitchers they also had a dynamite third baseman and SS. Go check their SLG. You’ll see what I mean. That team wasn’t as desperate as it was made out to be. Oh, and I’m sure you’ll see Buck would take those two guys SLG as it was well over 100 points higher than your 400. Just sayin’.
Moneyball is bullshart. Always was and proved not a damn thing.
Beane replaced SLG w/obp, during his roster moves, was the movies plot. It wasn’t about who he kept.
His use of his wonks understanding went industry wide. BOS couldn’t hire Beane, so they grabbed Bill. MLB quickly played copy cat.
The amusing part is, obp is built on BA and walks, a traditionalists playground, yet they seem offended by the movie?
Moneyball was set over 20 years ago – in 2002. For me, it was just a story about little guys looking for an edge. I didn’t take anything too literally.
Here is an interesting factoid. Since 2012, Bob Melvin’s first full season as Oakland manager, the A’s reached the playoffs three times and missed six. In that same time, the Cardinals were in the playoffs four times and out five. Both of them won just one playoff series during this period.
Oakland has had greater extremes, with two 97-win seasons, but also two over-100 loss years. The most the Cards won in a season since 2012 was 93 games and their worst losing total was 91 games.
They are very different franchises, but the end results haven’t been as extremely contrasting as one might think.
Wow so – boom or bust vs. steady mediocrity.
Two very different paths that have led to the same place.
I do think the As will thrive financially in Las Vegas but their stadium will likely have more visitors than locals after the ‘new’ wears off.
It will be interesting to follow their progress or lack thereof. They have time to make sure they hit town (Las Vegas) with a very good ball club – and I expect them to do just that. We shall see if they maintain it over time.
I’m not convinced the A’s will ever make it to Las Vegas. That is far from a sure thing. They still don’t have the funding in place and haven’t broken ground on anything. Their owner is a complete joke.
Meanwhile, Utah has already approved $900M in public funds for a new MLB stadium in Salt Lake City….hmmmmm
The Salt Lake City situation sounds like Atlanta some 60 years ago. Build the facility first, then woo the suitor.
Ironically Atlanta was going to be the landing spot for a Charley Finley and his Kansas City A’s. But after meeting Finley in person, most of the Atlanta dignitaries were wary of his abrasive personality and their enthusiasm cooled. The Milwaukee Braves then approached Atlanta and the city was more impressed with them.
Perhaps 60 years later we will see the Utah Athletics. They would be a good natural rival for the Rockies.
I am working on a new rant, so I will roll it out in beta and get some feedback. The theory is that the present focus on power, exit velo, launch angle, SLG rather than OBP, situational hitting, etc., is due to the fact that the tech that now exists lends itself to SLG related matters, so viola, that is what is important (whether it actually is or not).
The advancement of tech made it possible to put a guy in a booth and cover him with sensors, so that a bunch of laser or whatever hooked to computers could measure and analyze the biomechanics of his swing. From there a bunch of lab coats and clip boards could run simulations and figure out how to optize him, and maximize his exit velocity and launch angle, or whatever they do. As the tech became better able to work in the area of SLG, amazingly, it was discovered that SLG was the key to success after all. At least, that is what everyone seems to be aiming for.
It is less clear how tech could be used to develop a guy’s ability to foul off pitches too close to take with two strikes, so that is not important. I do not envision the lab coats working up a biomechanically optimized inside out swing to help a right handed batter hit behind a runner on second with nobody out. If some hitter in college or the minors is good at bouncing it to the second baseman when a runner needs to be advanced, what will be recorded for posterity is the 50 mph exit velocity. The guy who drills it to the third baseman who looks the runner back and throws to first for the unproductive out, he gets a 105 mph exit velo recorded for posterity. When draft day comes, or a slot opens at the next level, which one of those guys do you want to be? Well, they are not stupid so they want to be that guy too. To hell with hitting behind the runner because everyone is going to be looking at exit velo. Rather than being a tool in the toolbox, the state of the tech is leading the game around like a dog on a leash. What the tech lends itself to is what becomes important.
My theory on hitting is that the batter has an idea of what he wants to do when he steps into the box and what the pitcher likes to throw.
So – he looks for pitch that he can ‘do the thing’ with until he’s walked or has two strikes at which time he needs to shorten up and put something in play.
Now, all ML hitters must have freakish reflexes and hand / eye coordination to be able to hit ML pitching at all – some hitters obviously stand out even at ML level – which is the best of the best.
To a hall of fame hitter, I imagine that the pitches look a tad slower to them than to the rest of the league and of course most of us here could not stand in and even make contact against probably even D1 college level pitching.
So, I said all of that to ask: What are they teaching young hitters these days because playing good fundamental baseball like hitting behind the runner to move him over with less than two outs seems to elicit remarks from the game commentators (i.e. it is “remarkable”) when it seems to me it should be a run of the mill play.
Players do what they feel is in their best interest and what they feel is going to enhance their chances of a big contract. Since most teams now value a guy who hits .220 with 30 HR’s more than a guy who hits .300 with 5HR’s then most players are going to choose option A. It is all about the OPS.
Similar observations can be made on the pitching side. If you ask today how to make a guy’s fastball better you probably hear ‘add a few ticks’. Maybe you will hear work on location. Back in the old days, when cigar chompers still knew stuff, Dave Ricketts told young pitchers the best way to improve your fastball is work on your changeup. But, what did he know.
If I were a pitching coach I would work on movement on the fastball. Straight fastball even at 100 is batting practice
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