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Haven’t posted on here in forever. Obviously changes have to be made but personally I don’t trust Mo to be the person to do it. If they are looking to rebuild or reload why do it with the guy that got us in this mess. Short of Mo going though here is what I thin will happen.
PDJ and O’Neill get traded for a low level prospect or lottery card.
Montgomery is traded to a contender for an upper level pitching prospect. I read something about him a bit upset that the Cardinals didn’t even approach him in Spring to extend him. He doesn’t seem happy with our catcher of the future and doesn’t seem to like Mo. The Yankee’s beat writer bringing up the Contreras situation this week tells me that Montgomery is the one that spoke to him.
I’m hoping that we sign Flaherty for 1 year about 20 million. It’s in his interest to show that he’s fully back and fully healthy before looking for a multiple year deal.
If we can unload Contreras it would be wonderful but I doubt that happens.
I guess Edman or Donavan are traded to Seattle for one of they AAA pitching prospects.
Thoughts on taking a chance on Bauer or a Tyler Beede or go in on Yomamoto?
I briefly looked at the trade deadline deals from last year last night. They should be able to get a decent haul for Montgomery, even though he is only a half-season rental.
With Montgomery, by all means, trade him for a haul. Then, try to resign him in the offseason.
Every FA on the roster should be trade bait. Get what you can.
I’d look for a Monty type. Maybe two Monty types. Proven major leaguers who have a least 2024 left on their contracts. Bieber would be a level above that, but costly in players. I wouldn’t rule it out though. Here’s where the Guardians rank in MLB by position –
1B – 21st
2B – 19th
SS – 23rd
3B – 6th
LF – 13th
CF – 28th
RF – 30th
DH – 26th
Catcher – DisasterThey rank 26th in slugging percentage as a team. 26th in OPS, and 30th in home runs. Would they have an interest in some combination between Burleson, Nootbaar, Herrera, Carlson, Yepez, Gomez, etc.?
Maybe if our offer is strong enough, they would include Gavin Williams? Or we could shift to Williams if Bieber is too expensive?
Because Mo has an extensive history of competitive teams, I am not sure he should go. He has made quite a few player evaluation mistakes the last few years, but did get us Goldy and Arenado.
The problem with that of course is he has been bad at choosing managers. If I were DeWitt, I would consult with some of the players and trusted execs and management personnel about Ollie, and get some inside information on what industry personnel outside the organization think of him. If word comes back that the consensus is, “I was shocked when you guys made the change from Shildt to Marmol”, then you tell Mo, “Ollie goes”.
On the field, I would work to extend Montgomery, but it sounds like he will test free agency. Thus you have to work a deal with a contender for him and get a high level prospect in return. I would also try to work an extension with Hicks, but again am guessing he will want to test free agency. Thus he is one you work a deal for. If he continues to be strong as a closer, he could bring back a nice haul.
Do the same with Flaherty. Float Willson as well to see if there is interest, but his contract likely brings his value to near zero in trade options.
If you can get anything for DeJong, go for it. I would also see what I could get for Edman, although dealing both means you gamble with Donovan at short for the next couple of months before letting Winn play in September. But with the season in the tank, who cares. See what Brendan can do as a full time shortstop.
Andrew said:
Obviously changes have to be made but personally I don’t trust Mo to be the person to do it. If they are looking to rebuild or reload why do it with the guy that got us in this mess.
Its hard to argue with that.
As to Bauer, I just read that he had some kind of melt down over his teammates defensive blunders behind him. Still the same guy. There is not a ten foot pole long enough to touch him with.
As to a Yankees beat writer getting some clubhouse intel from Monty on catchergate, yeah, I wouldn’t be surprised. I think we can assume the Cardinals have some serious clubhouse dramas and such, and the whole of MLB knows all about it. That kind of thing could potentially hamper Mo’s efforts to bring in talent. But of course, its Mo’s fault to begin with.
I could care less if Arenado gets disgruntled. It is the job of the PBO to do what is in the best interests of the entire organization, not one guy. If he isn’t happy ship him and his $35M/year salary elsewhere and install Gorman as your 3B.
Where did the Arenado thing come up? I have not heard anything about him being unhappy – disappointed at the team’s performance, sure. But not anything about wanting to leave.
I posted this on the pitching staff thread. I try to sign Flaherty for a year (perhaps with a player option). Trade Monty and Hicks for a haul. I’d keep Arenado, Goldy, Gorman, Walker, Winn, and all promising minor league pitching. I’d listen to deals for others. Hope that the Monty/Hicks pickups, Herrera, marginal sluggers (Burleson, Baker, Yepez), and one of Noot or Carlson can get you two starting pitchers. Rotation of Monty/Flaherty/two new guys/ one of Liberatore, Matz, Hudson, Pallante, Thompson, with two of those last five as starters 6 and 7. Trade vs. free agent to get the starters.
With improved D (OF of O’Neill, Edman, Noot/Carlson; IF of Arenado, DeJong, Gorman, Goldy, DH of Walker, and Donovan as main backup), pitching should be better, and I’m less concerned about the lineup than the D and pitching.
Bikemike…It was mentioned that Arenado may become disgruntled. I hope he’s disgruntled. All of the players on this roster should be unhappy at the moment. If any of them are happy, that’s a serious problem…
Where did the Arenado thing come up? I have not heard anything about him being unhappy – disappointed at the team’s performance, sure. But not anything about wanting to leave.
It was suggested earlier in this thread that he might become disgruntled if certain players were traded away. That would be the least of my worries if I was Mo.
The high end trade chips of Flaherty and Montgomery should bring a strong addition or two.
They may look at Hicks as a keeper now.
One big question is Herrera. He probably has a very high trade value, and nowhere to play him in St. Louis. It’s a shame.
I’m still saying:
1) Edman and DeJong to the Dodgers for a good haul of prospects.
-Sheehan was one I would have loved to have, but doubt he’s available now with the success since being called up. Rushing, Pepiot (been out with an oblique injury), Ryan would all be names I’d be interested in. Dodgers have some interesting prospects. LAD need infield help badly, and both should be very appealing to them.2) STL gets: SP- Kopech (CHWS), AZ gets: SP- Giolito (CHWS), SP- Flaherty (STL), CHWS Get: C- Herrera (STL), 2-3 prospects from AZ.
-AZ could used SP after Gallen, with Kelly to the IL. Giolito and Flaherty were high school teammates and could be a cool story together in AZ too. Kopech isn’t having a real good season, but is talented and has team control through 2025. Herrera isn’t going to get a chance in STL with Contreras contract and CHWS needs a catcher. AZ has some pitching and IF prospects that could interest CHWS.3) Montgomery and Stratton for prospects. Together they should be able to land 2-3 quality prospects. Baltimore and Atlanta are both teams I could see an easy fit for them.
4) Hicks and VerHagen to Texas for a couple minor leaguers.
-Texas needs RP help. I don’t know the extent of VerHagen’s hip impingement and if he’s tradable, but his contract is expiring and throw him in for depth. AA IF Thomas Saggese is a guy I like, right handed Donovan like player. Scrappy, can play all over.5) O’Neill, sigh…he needs to go but I don’t know how at this point. Maybe they can package him together with something KC would want (Baker?) to get Barlow. Both have 1 year of control after this year. KC needs offense. Barlow could fill Hicks spot in the pen.
These moves wouldn’t be a complete rebuild, but a retool of the roster, adding team control, removing expiring contracts, while adding some prospects to be able to make trades in the off-season to be in contention in 2024.
Finish out the year with
1. Donovan LF/UT (L)
2. Nootbaar RF (L)
3. Goldschmidt 1B (R)
4. Arenado 3B (R)
5. Gorman 2B (L)
6. Walker DH/LF (R)
7. Contreras C (R)
8. Carlson CF (S)
9. Winn SS (R)??? – IF (Motter?), Burleson 1B/LF (L) Yepez 1B/LF (R), Knizner C (R)
-Donovan would be my primary LF the rest of the year, but if someone needed a day off he could move there, Walker to LF, and that person to DH or a full day off with Burleson or Yepez at DH.Wainwright, Kopech, Mikolas, Liberatore (L), Matz (L)/Hudson
Matz (L)/Hudson, Walsh/Zuniga/Woodford/?, Romero (L), Pallante, Cabrera (L), Barlow, Gallegos, Helsley
For 2024:
1) Get a proven SP to replace Wainwright
2) Kopech and Mikolas would be in the rotation. Who are the other 2? Matz under contract, Liberatore, ??? Where does Hudson fit?
3) Round out the pen
4) Assess the LF/DH/back up IF spot. Is Donovan the primary LF while playing Utility also with Walker at DH and get a utility guy to replace Motter? Where do Burleson and Yepez fit? Does there need to be a more permanent LF and Donovan a Utility guy and filling in longer term when there is injury somewhere?The high end trade chips of Flaherty and Montgomery should bring a strong addition or two.
I don’t consider Flaherty a high end trade chip. He hasn’t been for about three years.
1) Edman and DeJong to the Dodgers for a good haul of prospects.
The Cardinals won’t trade BOTH Edman and DeJong. It’ll be one or the other.
You rarely maximize the return by trading two players at once. And if you trade Edman and DeJong, who plays SS for the Cardinals?
Not yet. Edman is the bridge to Winn starting. PDJ at 12.5mil in 2024 is the cut bait trade chip. His buyout makes him rentable to a club in need.
We may not care if Arenado becomes disgruntled, but Bill does.
Expect the conservative play. It’s what got us in this mess to begin with.
It’s my guess they’ll all play better once they become disgruntled. Practical experience has shown me that when most people become excessively disgruntled, it forces them to take action to become undisgruntled…
This season isn’t going anywhere. The only move is to get rid of expiring contracts and redundancy on the roster and get controllable players and prospects to build off of. If Winn isn’t ready then just use Donovan at SS, Walker in LF and DH Burleson and Yepez or whatever.
I’m looking to drop Contreras and have Herrea as the catcher of the future. Any clue who else was in on Contreras last year as a FA?
Lots of speculation that Arenado is disgruntled. If so, why is he disgruntled? It made the news in the off-season that Mo traveled to see him about his opt out clause. If he was just promised him another year/more money, he has no one to blame but himself. If Mo promised additions to keep this club as a contender, he has every right to be disgruntled.
Adding Contreras at catcher was supposed to be a big thing, but so far it doesn’t look good. And let’s face it we needed pitching more than a catcher. You can tell Willson cares and the move from catcher to OF/DH hurt his confidence at the plate. Hopefully he comes around. How could they not have an idea on the catching issues? This just becomes another in the line of Mo clusters on evaluating free agents and players in his system.
Big ticket guys (Over 10 million signing):
Decent pickups: Mikolas – 2 good years, 2 injured. Peralta – 1 excellent year, 1 good, 2 bad. So far, 4 good years total, 4 bad for $138 million per Baseball Reference.
Bad pickups: Leake, Fowler, Matz, Miller, Cecil, Holland and Gregorson. No good years… $288 million or so…
Great trades: Goldy and Arenado
Bad trades: Gallen and Alcantera, Arozerena, Garcia, any others.
The problem with improving this team is letting Mo do it.
We know what the answer will probably be: Fire Girsch, fire Marmol, hire 2 more yes men, wash rinse, repeat. A College AD gets to fire 2 coaches for the big money sports. On the second hire his butt is on the hot seat. Mo is on his 3rd manager. How many more chances does he get?
I see issues with the Cardinals develop system as well. We are doing a good job developing average or slightly above average players but not getting the most out of talented guys that may be struggling? Is it any surprise that Arozerena and Garcia break out with other teams especially Randy with Tampa’s developmental system.
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