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Call Oakland and tell them he is all yours and we will pay the whole contract. Tell Fowler you can sit on the bench here in St. Louis and collect your paycheck or you can go to Oakland and play and we will mail you your paycheck.
I can understand the argument of keeping him as a 4th OF to try at least get a little value out of the contract but as was pointed out I doubt the Cardinals would have the discipline to pull that off. They would be tempted to play him everyday because of the money.
So they should try to get him to waive the NTC and trade him. Who would want him? I don’t know but I would look at teams the Cards seem to regularly do business with. The teams that come to mind are the Mariners, Indians, and Blue Jays. Jerry Dipoto can’t go a week without some kind of trade so he might do it out of reflex. Send Dexter and $36M for some AA lottery ticket and be done with it.
Who would want him?
At this point, the only team I see taking a chance on him is the Cubs, with us paying $16 million of his $16.5 million salary. Theo Epstein would love that.
As Brian pointed out earlier in the thread comparing Dexter Fowler’s chance of being traded to the Matt Kemp situation:
– Kemp was a malcontent in his stops in San Diego and Atlanta (much like Fowler appears here)
– Kemp was injured most of that time (much like Fowler here)
– Kemp was traded to help the Dodgers get under the luxury tax threshold (traded $40 million of salary this year for $40 million of Kemp over two years) in a trade facilitated by the Atlanta front office having ties to the Dodgers front office. Not sure we have any front offices filled with former employees willing to help us out
– Kemp was traded back to the team he had his best years for, and has experienced a resurgence. The team that fits that bill is the Cubs.As an example, no one could ever have guessed that all three starting OFs last summer would be gone a year later (Pham, Grichuk and Piscotty – Fowler was hurt). So it is not like they have not made changes.
I consider this a rather false argument.
In 2017:
– We waited until May 31st to release Broxton, even though he was terrible all year up to that point
– We waited until June 13th to release Jhonny PeraltaIn 2018:
– We waited until Aug 1 to release Greg Holland. Holland was making a lot more than Broxton.Now, let’s take a look at the learning curve of this front office:
– For four straight years, they have experimented with batting Carpenter somewhere else in the order besides leadoff, even though he is the best leadoff hitter in the game. For four straight years, this experiment has failed miserably. Each time, Carpenter goes on a tear as soon as he returns to the leadoff.
– Last year, Mozeliak admitted they got boxed in by having too many relievers without options, such that they couldn’t use the Memphis shuttle. What did they do this year? Signed Holland, Norris, Gregerson and traded for Leone. When did the bullpen start producing? When we started using the Memphis shuttle. So, let’s see if Mozeliak can learn his lesson after two years, or if he is going to be as thick-headed as he is with batting Carpenter somewhere else in the order than leadoff.You may not like the point, but the facts I cited are true, not false. The Cardinals made many roster changes, including the examples I cited.
Did they wait longer to unload established veterans with larger contracts? Of course, as any team would. You only cite the bad examples. What about unloading Leake?
The team has used the Memphis shuttle all season long.
So you believe the President of Baseball Ops sets the batting order? That is news to me.
Any update on Fowler? Will he be back this year or miss the rest of the season? Any possible trade brewing at the 31 August deadline?
r/Rat
I think you’re more likely to see Skipio Spinks suit up in Cardinal red this year than Dexter Fowler, Rat.
I think his wife posted a pic with crutches recently and he’s supposed to get his boot off two weeks before the season ends. There’s no rehab games that can be played in mid-September so what’s that tell you.
We will know when Leone and Wainwright come off the 60 day DO. Only 2 obvious moves. Put Bowman on waivers and Dex to the 60 day DL
The Cubs still seem to like Fowler, and he seems to love the Cubs. The worst that would happen if we gave him back to the Cubs is that he might replace a competent Cub outfielder.
Right now, I would much rather have Bader, Ozuna, and Martinez with McNeil and Garcia as fourth and fifth options. Which of those would you want to send down to keep Fowler? I’ve seen too many mistakes in the field, and his arm is inadequate for a rightfielder. Occasionally, he does something really good. But, those occasions are rare. There is no future in which I can see him as a starter.
Did we get Fowler because we lacked a CF and wanted to get back at the Cubs? If so, they won that one.
Pads,
Could you please provide a link to the source who says Fowler won’t even get the boot off until two weeks before the season ends? This is the first concrete information I’ve heard about his timetable. I admit I don’t watch the games much anymore, but I do read the P-D pretty diligently, and I haven’t seen any Fowler info at all.If he’s literally going to be in a boot for the next month, that is INCRDIBLE NEWS, the best I’ve heard since the day Fowler signed. (I didn’t pray for his bad health. I prayed and pray for his release or trade.)
Thanks a lot, Pads!
I am not Pads, but here is the link. Jen Langosch reported the Fowler news.
https://www.mlb.com/cardinals/news/luke-weaver-jack-flaherty-flipped-in-rotation/c-290492494
Not unless he is promoted to St. Louis first. That has financial and service time implications, which is why it hasn’t been done yet.
Thanks a million, Brian!
So, give or take a day, the cast won’t be removed until sometime between Sept. 14 and Sept. 21. Sounds like diplomacy is the only thing stopping the club from formally declaring him out for the season.Wouldn’t putting him on the 60-day DL give the team more flexibility with the 40-man roster?
As an example, no one could ever have guessed that all three starting OFs last summer would be gone a year later (Pham, Grichuk and Piscotty – Fowler was hurt).
You may not like the point, but the facts I cited are true, not false. The Cardinals made many roster changes, including the examples I cited.
First, stating Grichuk was a starter over Fowler is false. Pham (who famously started the season in Memphis) replaced Grichuk in the lineup, and Grichuk spent most of the second half of the season going up and down between Memphis and STL. Did Grichuk start when Fowler was out? Sure, but Fowler was only out a month, and when he came back he finally started hitting.
Now, let’s look at those “mistakes” the Cardinals corrected by trading Fowler, Pham, and Piscotty, who collectively are earning $4.6 million in 2018.
Randal Grichuk posted 1.1 bWAR in 2017 and has posted 0.8 bWAR in 2018. He was traded for Dominic Leone and Connor Greene. Leone has pitched 13 innings of 4.15 ERA ball for St. Louis in 2018, and was picked up off waivers by the Blue Jays in 2016. He accumulated 0.0 WAR for STL. We somehow determined a previous waiver wire claim was better than anything we had in Memphis.
Stephen Piscotty was traded for Yairo Munoz and Max Schrock, trading outfield depth for middle infield need. At the time of the trade, the Cardinals and A’s were applauded for doing the right thing for Piscotty and allowing him to be closer to his mother as she was dying. They made a baseball move for non-baseball reasons, was the spin.
Piscotty accumulated 0.6 bWAR in 2017, and has accumulated 0.7 bWAR in 2018. Yairo Munoz has accumulated 0.1 bWAR in 2018, but has filled in at a position of need on the Cardinals roster.
Tommy Pham, chronically injured and always outspoken, caused a ruckus this spring by blasting Cardinals management for failing to pay him after posting 6.2 bWAR in 2017. This year, he has accumulated 0.8 bWAR.
So, yes, if you think the average outfielder should generate 2 bWAR per year, all of these guys are underperfoming this year, and the Cardinals appear justified in moving on. Though with Pham, he was allowed to accumulate his unimpressive numbers mainly in STL this year. Would the Cardinals have gotten more in trade value had they traded Pham in the offseason? Undoubtedly. Was Pham a poster child for the type of player you sell high on? Absolutely.
Now, let’s look at the one outfielder they did keep. The guy brought in to lead the club house, and improve the athleticism of our outfield. The guy making $16.5 million per year.
Dexter Fowler accumulated 1.6 bWAR in 2017. And NEGATIVE 1.4 bWAR in 2018. Both years, he appeared in reports regarding clubhouse dysfunction, including being the last one to show up on game day and first one out after the game. The Cardinals famously had to go out to Vegas to ask him if he’s okay playing a corner outfield position. He has been in the bottom ten in the league defensively out of all outfielders both years.
YET, the Cardinals insisted on running Fowler out there every day even after all the shake ups.
This is an example of how the Cardinals prioritize the size of a player’s contract over on-field performance in terms of determining playing time. This is an example of how they are reluctant to admit mistakes, and would rather miss the playoffs than put the best team on the field.
I fail to see how any of the other three players were bigger mistakes than Fowler.
Enlighten me, Brian.
Fowler was the Cardinals offense’s best hitter with a .991 OPS from his second return from the disabled list on August 7, 2017 through the end of last season – a period of almost two months.
That is fact. There was benefit in trying to play him when healthy.
I am not sure what other points you are arguing. I was not trying to measure which signings were the biggest mistakes. Can’t see how that matters. My point is that the team has made a number of moves, last season and this, to try to improve. In doing so, they are admitting mistakes. It seems pretty clear that Fowler’s contract is an inhibitor to doing the same with him. But that seems to be commonly accepted, I think.
It remains a silly assertion that the team does not want to make the playoffs. There are an almost infinite combination of rosters and lineups possible. I get that you have a strong opinion and you are entitled to it. But it is what it is – an opinion.
It’s not for trying this season. It’s just some of the moves have been bad. I was surprised that they signed Holland. He was flat out a bad short term investment.
I would still like to add a veteran arm if we could for the pen. Hicks and Norris worry me a tad down the stretch.
Leone will be back soon. There’s your veteran arm. Plus Martinez and Wainwright will be in the bullpen and then there’s Webb and Gallegos. I’m done with bringing in veteran arms. I’m still reeling from Holland, Gregerson and Cecil.
How often are outlier seasons repeated?
Odor had one in 2017.
.224 babip / 58 wRC+He bounced back in 2018.
.305 babip / 97 wRC+Dexters 2018 is an outlier for his career.
.210 babip / 62 wRC+I’d beat against him repeating his 18′.
I liked the Fowler signing at the time, but even if he rebounds to the 2015-2017 Fowler, is he better than Tyler O’Neill? I like the Ozuna, Bader, O’Neill outfield better than any combo that would include Fowler.
I don’t lament losing Piscotty or Grichuk either, though losing Pham was irresponsible imo.
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