What is wrong with Carpenter and what should be done?

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This topic contains 148 replies, has 27 voices, and was last updated by Avatar SoonerinNC 1 month ago.

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  • #49171
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    grayssportsalmanacc
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    You would think if marp could combat the shift by now he would…im not sure why he doesnt try to lay down or at least show bunt every now and then

    Also, its worth noting that the spread between his BA and babip hasnt narrowed in the past 3 years, which would lead you to believe that the shift hasnt really been his problem…or at least its not something you could point to specifically the explain his drop off.

    To me the ump makes or breaks him. If you can see a wide strike zone developing early in the game he will struggle.

    #49175
    bicyclemike
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    Carpenter tried hitting third last year and it didn’t work. Why did they think it would work this year? I don’t understand their reasoning.

    The reasoning is, logically there is no reason a guy should hit better in one spot over another, all else being equal. You could make a case that a guy will see better pitches to hit if he is in front of a super-star caliber hitter. Ralph Houk did that in 1961 when early in the year he flipped Mantle with Maris, and had Rog hit in the 3 slot.

    With Matt, it mostly seems like he was primarily used at the top spot when younger and healthier, and after a slow start last year moving him there corresponded with his progression towards his career norm.

    But again, since his OBP is his primary value, it makes sense to put him there again and see if he starts to hit more as well as walk.

    #49176
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    NJ315
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    He should hit leadoff. No reason to try to him third again. Not sure when pitchers will start challenging him instead of walking him. When/if happens we will know what he has left. My opinion is playing third is painful for him. I could be wrong tough. I would have traded him. He has DH written all over him.

    #49201
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    Cardinals27
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    I guess you can’t gp back, but I thought Carp was going to swing less for the fences. He seems to try to pull everything. And keep trying bunt against the shift.

    #49204
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    He actually took strike 2 and strike 3 looking. Like what on earth? Both were clearly strikes. I’d say he is having trouble seeing the ball but that wouldn’t explain his walk rate. I don’t know what’s wrong with him but something is wrong.

    #49205
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    Well at least DeJong didn’t GIDP but he has to swing at that pitch. Geezus!

    #49206
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    God awful at bat there Fowler. Good heavens that was disgusting to watch.

    #49207
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    This will come back to bite us in the ass. Pathetic at bats there DeJong, Fowler and Pham.

    #49289
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    thejager
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    Carp has shown and tried the bunt away from the shift multiple times this year…twice last night against the Cubs…it’s not like he is defying the idea to use that tactic

    Carp had a nice game last night against the Cubs i dont see why isnt given slack….especially when DeJong and Wong arent exactly living up to everyone’s expectations yet this year either

    Carp and Fowler need to pick it up…but DeJOng worries me the most as we have no plan b for SS outside a limited Garcia and Munoz who is despite his ST is still a question mark at SS for full time duty

    #49292
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    gscottar
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    Carp had a great night last night but I still think he should hit leadoff, not only because he thrives there but because Fowler needs to be dropped down.

    Last night Carp looked like Tommy Herr circa 1985. That year Herr had 110 RBI with only 8HR while hitting third in the order.

    #49320
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    PadsFS
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    Isn’t DeJong on pace for 48 homeruns? The strikeouts are concerning, but if the Ks go down, I suppose the HRs will as well.

    Carpenter looked good and is getting it together. It’s still very early.

    #49344
    Brian Walton
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    I don’t think you want to get into the pace discussion, Pads. A lot of guys have hit 48 home runs in a season. Most recently, Stanton and Judge both topped that in 2017.

    On the other hand, in the entire history of Major League Baseball, no hitter has ever struck out more than 223 times in a season. DeJong’s current pace is 276, which would obliterate the all-time MLB record.

    Of course, there is a serious question of if he would be allowed to keep playing every day long enough to reach 276.

    #49347
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    thejager
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    i agree it is still very early…but DeJong’s concerns over striking out a lot arent new…and the field has had all offseason to find ways to get him out… i think he is still very talented and has good future but i think people might want to lower their expectations a bit…he may be a better version of Grichuk just at SS, and if we are fine with that and all the K’s and not having to depend on him that is a fine thing to have

    very similar to Trevor Story…you have to live with the Ks but if your team can then he is still very valuable

    #49912
    Brian Walton
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    This is an interesting theory I had not seen before. (I know Michael and asked him if he has seen detailed data on this.)

    #49921
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    gscottar
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    Could be some truth to this but I think Carp acknowledged this spring that he was going to stop swinging for the fences. He knows it is a problem, which is why I think leadoff is better for him because he will alter his approach to focus on OBP instead of HR. Let’s allow him to hit first for a month and see where we are at.

    #50123
    Brian Walton
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    #50181
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    thejager
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    With Gyorko hitting that HR and Wong’s bat showing life i am wondering if we start getting more off days for Carp…or maybe with Fowler slumping and Pham hitting his head with his bat we start seeing JMart getting a couple starts in the corner outfield

    we knew managing the playing time for all these guys was going to be a big part of how the season unfolded

    we shouldnt be surprised to see it happening more and more…there is no set starters for 3 of the positions with 4 guys vying for the time…though JMart is starting to pull away

    there are plenty of starts and ABs for everyone…but it will undoubtedly get complicated and frustrating at time to watch

    #50276
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    gscottar
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    I’ve been thinking the same thing. How much longer can we stick with Carp? What exactly does he bring to the table anymore?

    I think it is obvious that JMart and DeJong are going to play everyday. I would argue that Wong should play everyday also. That leaves 3B. If Carp isn’t hitting then why play him at 3B? Watching him try to throw across the diamond makes me cringe. It looks painful. I think at this point I would rather see a platoon of Gyroko and Garcia.

    As for RF, I suppose you could play JMart there but I think I would keep him at 1B and play Bader more in RF. Right now Bader’s bat plays better than Carp’s.

    Let’s face it right now Carp and Fowler are huge liabilities for us. I doubt if they have much trade value so it is quite the conundrum. I just hope MM will base playing time on production instead of salary.

    #50277
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    Gyorko is back. I can’t see why we’re not playing him every day, letting him develop a regular’s rhythm. Oh yeah, that’s right. We have to do something with our .161 hitting leadoff man. I have liked Carpenter for a long time and have been one of his biggest supporters during his latest difficulties. But there comes a time when you have to think of the team. The man is clearly not himself. He’s not doing us any good. He’s hurting. It’s time to sit him down for a significant stretch of rest, recuperation and reflection.

    #50280
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    Cardinals27
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    Yes, it is time to give Carpenter some rest. I’d sit him for one game the next 3 series. And Replace him late in games when we are ahead. Especially the Cubs series. He hits the Cubs so poorly the last few years.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by Avatar Cardinals27.
    #50380
    bicyclemike
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    I would prefer a lineup with Gyorko at third and Bader in right on a more-or-less everyday lineup. You then have Fowler and Carpenter as sort of super-subs to use in key situations.

    But that is no doubt tough to do in reality. Two fairly expensive, well traveled vets being told they are going to be part-time players is not easy.

    #50381
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    Cardinals2016
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    two fairly expensive, well traveled vets being told they are going to be part-time players is not easy.

    Sometimes, you have to do what’s best for the team.

    Fowler and Carpenter don’t do us any favors with their defense, and they aren’t winning too many games with their bats.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by Avatar Cardinals2016.
    #50396
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    Cardinal in France
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    Amen, 2016.

    #50404
    bicyclemike
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    Sometimes, you have to do what’s best for the team.

    True. There was a time when even Babe Ruth and Willie Mays were told they were going to be replaced by younger players.

    What was good enough for them is certainly good enough for Carpenter and Fowler, although I suspect if both were told that they would lobby for a trade to a place that they can play every day. In fact, that is basically what happened in the case of both Ruth and Mays. The Yankees shuttled Ruth back to Boston, but to the National League franchise in Boston, while the Giants sent Willie back to New York, to the expansion franchise Mets. Interesting comp there with those two greats.

    Then you have our own Stan the Man, who said after the Cardinals won the 1964 pennant, greatly aided by in-season acquisition Lou Brock who settled in to left field, “They would not have won with me in left field”.

    #50419
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    gmaske71
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    “Who is Carpenter blocking? It isn’t like we have a plethora of corner infielders waiting their turn in the minors. We have tons of pitchers and OF’s but not so much on infielders.”

    I guess you can’t directly respond to comments on this forum, so you have to quote them or else it sounds like you are responding to imaginary voices. So I have edited my comment below by adding the above earlier comment.

    Well, tonight 4/28, Carpenter is “blocking” Gyorko. Gyorko should not sit until he cools off. Right now he’s hitting 421/556/789. Small sample size, but why sit him? Carp isn’t the only problem, however. We have two players, Carp and Fowler, near the bottom of qualifying NL players’ hitting stats, and another one, Wong, who doesn’t qualify but otherwise would be near the bottom. But Matheny is always worried about rehabilitating players rather than playing the hot hand.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by Avatar gmaske71.
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