November 12, 2019 at 10:18 am #114149November 12, 2019 at 10:43 am #114158November 12, 2019 at 11:00 am #114162
Not a surprise, and depending on the financial aspect, it is a safe and solid signing. Probably something around $6-8M with incentives that could push it closer to $13-15M. I still think there’s a need for a backup plan in case Waino gets hurt or can’t pitch well enough. I’ll be glad to see Waino pitch as the 5th starter in 2020.November 12, 2019 at 11:07 am #114164
Considering he maxxed out at $10 MM last year, a $13-15 MM peak seems awfully rich, especially for a 38 year old with a checkered injury history. I would be fine with a larger base than the $2 MM last year, but I’d leave the top end where it was.November 12, 2019 at 11:11 am #114165
I get the sense that the Cards would give a bump on both the guarantee and the max money, given how they usually treat Cardinal legends. He was a roughly average starter last year after a much rougher 2018 so I’d think he’s due a raise, anyway.November 12, 2019 at 11:19 am #114166
If you forget about his 2015-2018, when he made $78 million and delivered a four-year total of 2.2 bWAR. Last season, they got 1.9 bWAR for their $10 million.November 12, 2019 at 11:25 am #114167
If you forget about his 2015-2018, when he made $78 million and delivered a four-year total of 2.2 bWAR. Last season, they got 1.9 bWAR for their $10 million.
Oh, I haven’t forgotten about that. I mentioned it on another thread last week…it might have been the worst extension in franchise history. Typically, players don’t give discounts when they bounce back from a down year even if they were overpaid before. I’ll be pleasantly surprised if he doesn’t get a raise in both guaranteed and maximum money. We will see.November 12, 2019 at 11:34 am #114170
I am glad an agreement has been made. I will reserve judgement until the figures are revealed.
I am hopeful Wainwright banks on his health and ability again. He wants to be a Cardinal and has already made his money. I can see another contract with a slightly higher base and a little more in incentives.November 12, 2019 at 12:09 pm #114172
I just find fan behavior funny. When the critics list the bad contracts given by the team, Wainwright never even comes up. The money they lost on his four mostly down years is about as much as Fowler’s entire five-year contract and is more than Cecil’s contract and Carpenter’s extension added together. But Wainwright gets a pass because of his rich history. My take is that teams get into the most trouble when they pay for the past instead of projected future performance.
Bringing the conversation full circle, no one would reasonably project that Wainwright will perform better next year, so why give him the potential for a 30 to 50 percent increase? He has already cashed in nicely.November 12, 2019 at 12:37 pm #114173CardsFanInChiTownParticipantFree
I would not be at all shocked if the contract is the exact same one he signed last offseason. That was a very fair deal for both sides. Secondly, both sides are hopeful that he maxes out his incentives.November 12, 2019 at 1:14 pm #114174
When you look solely at production for the money, Wainwright’s 2014-2018 contract is very bad. Most of the negative is due to injury. It has taken some time but he has finally got his health back and is able to pitch like a #4, maybe a #3, starting pitcher. By giving him a little more base (no more than $5) and even a little more in incentives, would be paid according to how he could perform in 2020. If he does poorly, he retires or is released. If he does well, he is paid well.November 12, 2019 at 1:20 pm #114175Cardinal in FranceParticipantFree
Keep the base the same is my view, whatever that’s worth, and bump him up on incentives. How can that go wrong?November 12, 2019 at 1:30 pm #114176
This article doesn’t give the specifics, but does hint that his base salary will be higher and that he’ll have a shot to earn incentives again.
https://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/birdland/encore-for-wainwright-cardinals-longtime-ace-agree-on-one-year/article_3db47b27-5710-569e-8bbc-4cd72140e31d.amp.html?__twitter_impression=trueNovember 12, 2019 at 2:22 pm #114178atripleshyofthecycleParticipantFree
Comparing Wainwright and Fowler is apples and oranges. Fowler was a panic move and was overpaid for what reasonably could be expected. And it isn’t a shock that he’s been less than what could have reasonably been expected.
Yadi’s contract, on the other hand, is probably the better one for you to point to. But being a sure-fire Cardinals hall of famer makes a real difference.November 12, 2019 at 2:46 pm #114179
In the context provided, it is reasonable to compare any two contracts with one another, especially ones given to free agents. So much money was paid and so much return was received. The reasons behind why the deals were done in the first place is interesting background, but does not change the basics. Results for money.
For Wainwright 2015-2018, he received $78 MM and returned 2.2 bWAR, so the team paid $35.5 MM per WAR.
For Fowler 2017-2019, he received $49.5 MM and returned 1.9 bWAR, so the team paid $26.1 MM per WAR.
In both cases, these are only partial contracts, but you get the point. The Cards got less for their money during Waino’s four down years than for Fowler’s contract to date. Neither is anything to brag about, obviously.November 12, 2019 at 3:04 pm #114181BlackHillsCardParticipantFreeNovember 12, 2019 at 3:34 pm #114187thejagerParticipantPaid - Annual
I was hoping for a lower base, but im happy to pay him so I dont have to see him in a BRaves uniform
Thing is, you want him to play well and earn his money, but also every time he keeps playing well he will want to keep playing…thus keep re-upping him. At some point though it will all fall apart.
I want Waino to keep pitching for a while, and if he pitches like last year I could care less if it is a bit too much money. His function as veteran and basically another pitching coach who isnt getting paid has to be factored in when it comes to his worth.November 12, 2019 at 3:46 pm #114188
If it is $5 million base and $5 million in incentives, I am happy.November 12, 2019 at 4:27 pm #114191mudvilleParticipantPaid - Annual
If Waino can stay healthy for awhile, it at least buys some time to get that 5th spot in the rotation worked out, hopefully.November 12, 2019 at 5:25 pm #1141931982 willieParticipantPaid - Annual
someone at work told me it was the same aa last year which would have been lowball this year based on what he did last year. he deserved a little more trust based on how he pitched. but I just read it was for 5 million base and 5 million in incentives which I feel is fine and he deserved as much. they should have given that 2 million deal to carpenter instead of giving him an extension last year. that’s about what he deserves.November 12, 2019 at 5:54 pm #114199bicyclemikeModeratorPaid - Annual
I did not want Waino back this year as a starter, but thought he could be a great asset to the bullpen. He went out and proved he could still be an effective starter, so I am glad he is back.
You just hope he goes out on a good year, and does not limp through the season with injuries and poor results.
Hey, just saw Shildt for MOY!! Awesome!November 14, 2019 at 10:42 am #114352GameCardParticipantFree
Adam was just on Hot Stove on the MLB network with Harold Reynolds and Matt Vasgersian. It was one of the best interviews you will ever see. He is a great representative of the Cardinals.November 15, 2019 at 6:58 am #11443014NyquisTParticipant
Cards were looking for a veteran starter for the back of the rotation. Here he is.
He’d be a lousy #2 or #3, but a pretty good value at #5.November 15, 2019 at 8:13 am #114443mudvilleParticipantPaid - Annual
Agree, especially since a 5 inning start is now considered acceptable.May 8, 2020 at 7:29 am #128210
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