Wainwright or Ross in 2019

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This topic contains 101 replies, has 26 voices, and was last updated by Brian Walton Brian Walton 8 months ago.

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  • #72389
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    shakenbake McBride
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    If the price is right it was a good signing as long as he stays healthy. There is a good chance that Reyes never pitches significant innings for St. Louis. He just can’t stay healthy enough to contribute. Don’t be surprised if at least 1 or 2 contributors from 2018 end up on the DL in 2019. Worst case scenario Flaherty and Hicks. Carlos Martinez is a question mark and Wacha is probably done due to injuries. Pitching can go from a strength to a disaster in the blink of an eye. Wouldn’t it be nice to finally have a year with no devastating injuries to our pitching staff.

    #72402
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    forsch31
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    Bw52, then we will have to agree to disagree because the stats don’t back up your point, again. Wainwright was hurt last year and still outperformed them.

    #72405
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
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    Based on his age and recent history, including three DL trips last year, is it more likely he is healthy or injured next year?

    #72406
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
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    #72413
    jj-cf-stl
    jj-cf-stl
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    If Adam were a FA from another org coming off 40 IP and a 1.463 WHIP, our FO wouldn’t be interested.

    This is clearly not about making the roster better, but, I’m not overly annoyed by the signing because I seriously doubt he can match his 40 IP from last season.

    He had a negative run value BP fastball in 18′. A negative cutter that won’t cut and a breaking ball that was effective sporadically.

    If he has to flip breaking balls again, non-stop, the elbow will blow out again. I’ll take the under on 40 IP.

    #72417
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    gscottar
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    You are spot on Brian. The FO really isn’t doing Shildt any favors with this signing and as Nyquis mentioned the other day you could almost lump Fowler and Cecil in there as well. Shildt is being asked to overtake the Brewers and Cubs with basically a 22 man roster. That is a tall order.

    And I should add that I mean no disrespect to Waino. He has been a great Cardinal and by all accounts a great human being, but this is a business and we have to live in the present and the future, not the past.

    • This reply was modified 1 year ago by Avatar gscottar.
    #72424
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
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    CC, Cots won’t have Wainwright’s terms for a couple of weeks. Turns out the maximum 20% cut rule mentioned by forsch earlier in this thread does apply IF he is still on the roster. However, once he officially hits free agency, then all bets are off. So, Wainwright will file for free agency after the World Series, then immediately sign with the Cardinals for a much lower base salary than would be allowed prior.

    #73493
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
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    #73494
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
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    Under these terms last season, Wainwright would have made $2.5 MM instead of $19.5 MM.

    #73510
    stlcard25
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    Interesting structure. For the money, I’m sure the Cards are hoping for Bud Norris type value. I’m not sure that Waino will start, given all the options this team has, but he could be a weapon out of the bullpen if he can stay healthy (no small feat for him of late). If he totally tanks, the team hasn’t lost much and he can be shelved until a late season swan song/standing ovation before he retires.

    #73514
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    thejager
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    I think a pretty good deal, doesn’t hurt us much if he isnt good to go. If he is good to go (which means he is good) then he is a steal

    I think his stuff still plays VERY well for 1 time through the rotation, as a 1-2inn reliever/closer i think he could really make some money on this deal

    he doesnt need to invent new pitches to be in the bullpen, he has been modifying his stuff for the last 3-4 years to get guys out, and outside of a few really bad and really good outings he has been pretty consistent at doing that with what he has been healthy and not been pushed too far

    He reminds me of John Smoltz at this point, still good enough stuff but just not enough to start consistently

    If we can create a bullpen solution that doesnt need him to be out there everyday and maybe only every other from time to time, i think he could adjust his conditioning to make it work for him and the team

    getting him to be closer would be fun, and id be all for it, but i worry more about his ability to recover on a daily basis which is what you want your closer to be
    but if we dont go get a real closer, we may be in the closer by committee situation, and with maybe three options Waino could still be one of the closers I would think….

    sign Britton, trade for Rogers or Will Smith

    then you could mix and match at the back end pretty effectively
    Hicks, Waino, Rogers, Britton, Brebbia, Hudson, Leone, Mayers/Gallegos/Gregerson

    #73519
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    14NyquisT
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    I get the feeling that AW gets every chance to be in the rotation out of Spring Training. Is it me or won’t it seem too strange to see Wainwright coming out of the bullpen? He was such a large presence in the dugout.(although IMO he was a bit too goofy at times for an elder statesman).

    Worse case scenario for Wainwright, the Cards and the Card faithful:

    If he totally tanks, the team hasn’t lost much and he can be shelved until a late season swan song/standing ovation before he retires.

    #73521
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    CariocaCardinal
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    Only downside is if he pitches poorly and stays healthy. Then he eats a roster spot unless he gracefully retires or Cards have courage to pull the plug.

    #73525
    bicyclemike
    bicyclemike
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    Waino will get a shot at a rotation spot, but I cannot see him successful there. My guess is the he transitions to the bullpen sometime in the first half of the season, and hopefully is a force that can give us a big boost from some of the shenanigans we went through in ’18.

    #79418
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
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    Wainwright explains his problem in 2018.

    #79456
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    Bob Reed
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    It’s been five years since Waino pitched 50+ innings with a sub-4.50 ERA. It ain’t all because of body weight.

    I was mildly optimistic when the Cards re-signed him. Because it was very little dough, and my personal expectation was that he could buttress the relief corps, maybe. I thought his velocity could get just enough of a bullpen boost to make him viable in that role.

    But now we’re hearing that he’ll report as a rotation pitcher (blecch) and the “best shape of my life” type of stories are starting already. You’re old, Adam. Forget starting. Go out the way you came in — saving the final game of the World Series.

    #79486
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    gscottar
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    I’m with you Bob. The $2M + incentives for Waino isn’t that big of a deal but him taking up a rotation spot is a huge deal. I just don’t think our staff/FO will have the guts to take him out of the rotation even if he struggles unless they try to hide him in Memphis or Springfield all year on rehab. On this particular issue the team is letting nostalgia dictate the terms, which is unfortunate.

    #79494
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    14NyquisT
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    Nostalgia sells seats. DeWitt is pulling the strings. Shildt will need to be a puppet or he’ll be gone too. He has to take orders from Molina also and play Fowler no matter what. Shildt isn’t strong enough to do what’s right for the team.

    #79517
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
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    Ny, you seem to favor a manager who will act against the wishes of those who hired him. Have you considered that may be an impractical expectation in any line of work?

    #79528
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    858booyah
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    I don’t know the details of the contract but I think if it’s such a low amount with incentives that it could be possible that if he doesn’t get a rotation spot and doesn’t like his role moving forward that he’ll either be finessed out or retire.

    Honestly he’s nothing more than a 5th starter. If he can’t lock that down and with the lack of fastball movement he can’t close or set up. Then it’s strictly mop up for him. I don’t think he’ll be down for that.

    #79533
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    mudville
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    I don’t see it as nostalgia. I see it as loyalty. Wainwiright has been loyal to the organization, and they’re respecting him for it. Also, he’s a high character guy, and sets a good example for whoever wants to pay attention. That’s a good thing for the team.

    We’ll know soon enough if Waino can get outs. The downside is that there are young pitchers chomping at the bit who also can get outs.

    I like loyalty and I like that he’s a classy person. So I’m good with bringing him back.

    #79535
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    1982 willie
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    well I think wainwright is still a good option for spot starts. I would prefer he pitch out of the pen myself but I think he could be fine in spot starting duty. hes one of my all time favorite cardinals so I guess im a little bias.

    #79536
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    Cardinals27
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    I think Waino is better suited for the bullpen. Unless Waino dazzles, or there are multiple starters injured his leash should be short for a spot in the starting 5.

    #79546
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    PugsleyAddams
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    DeWitt obviously loves Waino. Not only as a ballplayer, but also as a person. And if DeWitt loves him, the it’s a certainty that Mo does too…..or at least he acts like he does. And it should go without saying that if both DeWitt and Mo are bullish on Waino, then Shildt and MM are as well. Waino will be working with this organization long after he has thrown his last pitch.

    #79563
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    14NyquisT
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    I recall the same type of feelings be being written about concerning Chris Carpenter. In my mind Carpenter was a stronger leader and a fiercer competitor which led to some not liking him as much as Wainwright is
    thought of now. Carpenter is not around as much as fans thought he would be… different strokes for different folks. So only time will tell how much we’ll see Wainwright influencing the team when his playing days are over. He does has a lot of outside interests also.

    I miss the Carpenter style of baseball and was disappointed when he hung ’em up.

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