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315 brings up a good point regarding the future of Wainwright after ’18. I reckon we’ll have to see how he fares this season, but giving him three more (ala Molina/pandering to the fanbase) would not be prudent taking his age and injury history. If he pitches well in ’18 that is going to be a big decision to make. Has the Molina deal set a precedent for aging Cardinal warriors?
Unless Wainwright has a miraculous rebound I can’t imagine offering him more than a cheap one year deal, if even that. There is a big difference between him and Molina. While both are aging Cardinal stars of the past, Molina is still fairly productive. Waino isn’t.
Why block all of our rising pitching phenoms for a guy who can’t get outs? I realize he is a Cardinal legend and hero but the contracts based on sympathy and respect can only go so far. This is still a business.
One way this could work is trading Grichuk even too. Martinez would become the backup outfielder with Fowler, Pham, and Ozuna all capable of playing centerfield.
Then Gyorko becomes the primary backup at 1B, 2B, and 3B.
gscottar
O’Neill is a RH hitter.
That changes things. I guess I wrote it down wrong after the trade and never corrected it. That does hurt depth-wise.
I do believe Grichuk will be traded before the beginning of the season.
The most obvious place is San Francisco, because they need a CF and they need power. Problem is, they don’t have anything to give back. Royals make sense – but again, nothing really to give back.
Toronto and Miami make sense. In either of those situations, I would see the Cardinals asking for a reliever.
Diamondbacks make sense as well, there, the Cardinals are most likely to ask for prospects, as I don’t think the Diamondbacks are in position to trade relievers.
Ah, I see two of the trades we made included LH hitting players – Schrock hits LH and JB Woodman also does.
Speaking of, Piscotty was compensation for Pujols so now the Pujols legacy will include both Schrock and Munoz (in addition to Wacha) in value added after he signed with the Angels. Hopefully, one of the two ends up being pretty good.
I do believe Grichuk will be traded before the beginning of the season.
The most obvious place is San Francisco, because they need a CF and they need power. Problem is, they don’t have anything to give back. Royals make sense – but again, nothing really to give back.
Toronto and Miami make sense. In either of those situations, I would see the Cardinals asking for a reliever.
Diamondbacks make sense as well, there, the Cardinals are most likely to ask for prospects, as I don’t think the Diamondbacks are in position to trade relievers.
I wouldn’t mind having Kelvin Herrera from the Royals but it might take more than Grichuk to get him.
Hosmer being offered by the Padres?
Reliever Market
So, if we show interest in someone, it is just to make the fans feel good about the Cardinals. If another team shows interest in someone, they are fortifying their team? Is this correct?
So, forsch, in answer to your question, if you look at how the Rockies addressed their bullpen needs this offseason and how the Cardinals did, the answer is YES.
Oh, is the offseason over already? I must have overslept.
Twitter is full of Chicken Littles who have no patience whatsoever. I hope we can take a broader perspective here.
Well, Brian, forsch likes to attack everything anyone says.
Anyone who has read Derrick Goold in the P-D knew the Cardinals weren’t really in the market for Davis or Holland or any elite closer, because they don’t want to pay for a closer in free agency.
Similarly, I have seen nothing to suggest this front office has changed their approach to trading prospects for players, which is why I feel a trade for Colome will not happen. Rays are notoriously difficult to deal with, the Cardinals have a glaring hole, and all the leverage is with the Rays.
After reading that Yelich was made available, I propose a trade of Pham, Kelly, and Tuivelalla for Yelich, Steckenrider, and Barrclouigh. This is presuming Miami trades Reamuto. Maybe even include Bowman, or Mayers, for Ziegler, making it a 4 for 4 trade. I would hate to trade Pham, but we would get a controllable LH hitter with huge upside, and upgrade our bullpen. Miami makes a great trade partner, due to their scouting of our farm system, and the previous Stanton/Ozuna trade talks. And best of all, we retain our premium pitching prospects in case we want to upgrade our starting rotation.
C2016, you have to be kidding about this, right?
Similarly, I have seen nothing to suggest this front office has changed their approach to trading prospects for players…
Did you entirely miss the four prospects-for-one trade for Marcell Ozuna a few weeks ago? Three of the four were to be in our 2018 top 11.
Also, while Derrick Goold should be respected as a hard-working reporter, looking for him to unearth what the front office is thinking about trades and free agent signings may not be totally satisfying. The national guys seem to be better at hot stove news/rumors than the locals, IMO, perhaps because their sources are different.
Regarding the Rays’ supposed difficulty to trade with, that reputation began with Andrew Friedman, who has been with the Dodgers for several years now. Recent data would put that assumption under question. Despite supposedly having little in the prospect department to trade, the Giants were able to acquire Longoria from Tampa.
Who knows? Maybe nothing will happen the rest of the winter, but making assumptions about that on December 30 have as much of a chance of being wrong as right. We don’t know what we don’t know.
Its does seem as if there is way less trades and free agent signings than I expected. ALso, given the fact that pitchers and catchers will report to spring training in 6 weeks.
Sobering rumor from Jon Heyman:
One rival exec speculated that the Cubs are probably the favorite for Bryce Harper in a year, noting that he and Kris Bryant are great friends, and also that “their wives are great friends.” That certainly would give the Cubs quite a righty-lefty combo for years.
https://www.fanragsports.com/inside-baseball-mlb-notes-astros-targeting-long-term-catcher/
If the Cubs want to spend $400M on Harper let them go ahead. Within 4 years all of their young sluggers will be out of contract unless renewed early, so things are going to get a little pricey around Wrigleyville. Not even the mighty Cubs will be able to afford everyone.
As for D. Goold, he seems more interested in talking about puns, life stories, and not so amusing anecdotes. He acts like it kills him to have to talk about baseball. I think he is the wrong department at the paper.
I saw the Ozuna trade, but do you think the Cardinals really changed their philosophy? They had previously done one such trade in ten years. They have now done two.
Which one of the prospects the Cardinals gave up did it really hurt, to give up?
As for making assumptions about the rest of the offseason, I guess it can be kind of like mocking the people that were advocating trading for Ozuna last offseason when he dropped the ball in left in a spring training game, and then he goes on to win a gold glove. But really, if this front office had changed, they would have had a bold plan to transform us into WS contenders instead of talking to Stanton about cost of living and traffic patterns.
I am not a fan of Goold. He is a Cardinals front office PR person as far as I am concerned. But I do believe his repeated insistence the Cardinals were not looking for a closer in free agency is based on discussions from those within the org.
Joel Sherman seems to think three Cardinals makes sense as trade candidates for the Yankees.
Would have been a lot easier for the Cardinals to trade one of them had they signed Cozart this offseason.
Data from MLB Trade Rumors.
Top 50 Free Agents to sign before New Year’s Day:
2013-2014: 34
2014-2015: 33
2015-2016: 27
2016-2017: 28
2017-2018: 20Cardinals2016
Participant
Well, Brian, forsch likes to attack everything anyone says.
This is the second time you have attacked me and my credibility using means that are against the posted guidelines of the forum. All I have EVER tried to do is provide my opinions, question others opinions with facts, ask them to clarify their position or provide facts, or point out how some post should be considered illogical. If you consider that to be attacking, that is on you.
I am confident that you could ask a majority of the posters on here and they would agree with my assessment.
I am done with this unless you try to troll me again. At that point, I would hope Brian will step in.
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