Cardinals Team Hall of Fame

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  • #128894
    Avatarbccran
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    Seriously, Brian. I’m a big Tudor fan. I liked him a lot while he was here. But let’s not get carried away about him. I know wins and losses aren’t a huge deal, but here’s his record here –

    1985: 21-8 (terrific year)
    1986: 13-7
    1987: 10-2
    1988: 6-5
    1990: 12-4

    Is that really the stuff that makes the Cardinal Hall of Fame?

    #128895
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    I understand your point of view, but the Red Ribbon Committee, a group of some very knowledgeable people including Whitey and TLR, collectively voted to put Tudor on the fan ballot several years before Herr.

    In all honesty, I would have limited Modern Era inductees to one per year several years ago and will continue to lobby to pull back now that the backlog of obvious candidates has pretty much been addressed.

    #128897
    Avatarbccran
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    Do Tony, Whitey, and the Committee have a system? Or is it somewhat the “pet player” syndrome.

    #128898
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

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    C’mon. Do you really think it is a free-for-all? That is insulting.

    #128899
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

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    I want to be clear that I am not advocating either Tudor or Herr, therefore not one over the other. I am just guessing how I think the fan vote might turn out. However, as noted before, since Herr is new to the ballot, there could be some pent up demand. The only player on the ballot I have firmly endorsed is Hernandez.

    #128900
    Avatarbccran
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    Come on. What’s insulting about asking if there’s a system, or specific analytical approach?

    #128960
    bicyclemikebicyclemike
    Moderator

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    Would love to see Bill White get in with Hernandez. Two great Cardinal first baseman.

    Can not compare pitchers to hitters as far as “who contributed more”. Tudor was simply great as a Cardinal. He is still the all time leader in ERA (modern era) and WHIP. He consistently gave his team a chance to win. Granted he was not with the club as long as some others, but was here long enough to merit HOF status in my opinion.

    #128970
    Avatarbccran
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    Mike – I agree that Tudor was mesmerizing and had some great moments, but here are his starts as a Cardinal –

    1985 – 36
    1986 – 30
    1987 – 16
    1988 – 21
    1990 – 22 (was in 25 games)

    So he really only had 2 totally full seasons as a Cardinal.

    #129014
    bicyclemikebicyclemike
    Moderator

    Paid - Annual

    It’s the Koufax vs Spahn situation. Do you take the guy who was consistently excellent over many years, or the guy who was exceptional over a shorter time frame? I go with the latter on this one due to John’s all time marks in two big pitching categories, but understand there are merits in taking the longer term guy.

    In fact I did that when McGwire was voted in. I voted for Hernandez as I felt he contributed more than Big Mac. But fans liked the incredible accomplishments McGwire attained while here, not to mention the Met stigma Keith has with many fans.

    #129111
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

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    Our recap article will go up as soon as all the honorees are announced.

    #129126
    Avatarbccran
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    It’ll be interesting if they induct a player who really only had two full seasons as a Cardinal.

    #129128
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

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    That could not happen as any player with fewer than three seasons is ineligible. But anyone of the seven players on the fan ballot is eligible and my experience suggests that people vote with their hearts, far more than by data.

    #129156
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

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    Tudor only had 2 what could be called full seasons.

    85 – 36 starts
    86 – 30 starts
    87 – 16 starts
    88 – 21 starts
    90 – 22 starts (was in 25 games)

    When he came to the Cards in 1985, he was 31 years old.

    Herr came into the Cardinals system when he was 19 and was in the organization until he was 32.

    Herr was in 1,029 games for the Cardinals. He was the starting second baseman on the 1982 World Championship team and on the 2015 and 2017 World Series teams.

    Tudor only was in 118 games for the Cardinals. He wasn’t on a Cardinal World Championship team, pitched a full season on the 1985 World Series team, and only had 16 starts on 1987 team.

    It will be a travesty if Tudor is inducted over Herr.

    #129157
    AvatarDavid Martin
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    Herr absolutely. Check my user name. 🙂

    #129158
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

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    Good 1st choice by the fans –
    Tommy Herr.

    #129160
    Avatarbccran
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    Tudor over Hernandez?

    #129161
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    #129162
    Avatarbccran
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    Big difference between the Herr interview and the Tudor interview.

    #129165
    AvatarDavid Martin
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    yes, congrats to all three. no Hernandez surprises me

    #129171
    Avatarbccran
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    Fans have memories like elephants……white stuff and then pond scum.

    #129175
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    I think you are being unfair to elephants, considered some of the most intelligent beings on earth! 😉

    Seriously, I wish I knew what the percentage of opposition on those two points are. The former says the fans cannot forgive and forget, which is really too bad, but at least he was guilty as charged.

    The latter makes no sense at all. Hernandez did not decide where he was traded. Whitey is the one who traded him in the division. Do fans really prefer that Hernandez stopped being good after being traded as Herr did? Hernandez is being penalized because he continued to perform at a high level with NY, which is totally wrong. Further, what he did elsewhere should be separate from what he accomplished as a Cardinal.

    On the latter point, I also sense that Steve Carlton is being discriminated against because he was too good later on. Again, he was traded in the division due to no fault of his own.

    I cannot support that logic and never will. I would have no problem with a player being a member of multiple team Halls of Fame if worthy. Nolan Ryan is in three of them.

    #129176
    BlackHillsCardBlackHillsCard
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    Petty Cardinals fans strike again. Snubbing Hernandez is becoming a joke.

    #129178
    AvatarGameCard
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    I voted for Hernandez and Carlton.

    #129179
    Avatarbccran
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    Hernandez I believe had critical remarks about the Cards after being traded. Since many people at the time knew Whitey had covered big time for him he was considered a hypocrite. Elephants have great memories. And many fans do too. My comment was actually complimentary of elephants.

    #129180
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    My comment was actually not complimentary of voters. I wonder how the view is up there on their high horses, er… elephants! 😉

Viewing 25 posts - 251 through 275 (of 326 total)
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