April 18, 2021 at 5:34 pm #158530
Bader – somehow injured his forearm.
O’Neill – pulled groin. Weightlifter.
Thomas – sent down a second time
Thomas – hitting a blazing .193
Carlson has the only legitimate long term potential.April 18, 2021 at 6:05 pm #158532blingboyParticipantPaid - Annual
cranny I assume that second Thomas is Williams, and I have him at .194. Thomas was hitting .222.
You forgot Dean, he is part of the pile.April 18, 2021 at 6:32 pm #158534
I don’t consider Dean or Edman part of the equation. In the off season, Mo was counting on a starting OF of O’Neill, Bader, and Carlson. With Thomas and Williams #4
and #5. That’s the group that he rolled the dice with. And the group that’s a train wreck so far. With the exception of Carlson, who’s the sole legitimate long term starter candidate.April 18, 2021 at 6:46 pm #158535
Carlson, who’s the sole legitimate long term starter candidate.
That’s only 1 man’s position. It seems the most important people: Mo, Girsch and Schildt, don’t think that way.April 18, 2021 at 6:54 pm #158537mudvilleParticipantPaid - Annual
I think Dean is a legitimate possibility and definitely part of the equation when considering the outfield. I’d like to see him get regular starts for an extended period. I’m still My biggest surprise so far has been Thomas. A sliding catch has it’s place every once in awhile, but Thomas seems to do it every other inning which makes it seem like he doesn’t really know how else to field the ball.
BTW, I can’t help but wonder if Carpenter’s truly pathetic play isn’t putting a damper on the whole team, including the outfield. Shildty had better wake up before too much damage is done.April 18, 2021 at 6:58 pm #158538
Mo and Girsch know that Carlson is a fine talent. Ranked #17 prospect in all the minor leagues in 2020. O’Neill and Bader have never been ranked anywhere near that high. And Thomas and Willians have never sniffed the top 100 list. I go along with the experts’ opinions, Forsch. You’re right, I’m only one man.April 18, 2021 at 7:17 pm #158542jj-cf-stlParticipantPaid - Annual
“It’s almost like you’re trying to pick a fight”
It’s called trolling. Followed by the poor little victim routine. One option is don’t feed the troll with replies.April 18, 2021 at 7:23 pm #158543
Brian – please step into your moderator role and tell this little fellow to follow the posting rules. Thanks.April 18, 2021 at 7:48 pm #158548
Bader’s defense is overrated. Can’t go back well, so he plays deep. Wasn’t even close to earning GG last season.
Bader’s defense gives him a FLOOR of a 3 WAR player. During 2019, when he had a .680 OPS, he put up 2.3 bWAR, or roughly 3.4 WAR/600
In 2018 & 2020, when he put up OPS of .756 & .779, he was worth nearly 5 bWAR/600.
Your hatred of Bader skews your opinion of his value.
As for not being able to go back to the wall, that was a comment he made to Jim Edmonds, who was an elite center fielder as well. Edmonds made his name by crashing into walls, Bader makes his by covering ground. One is not better than the other. As long as Bader can cover ground, he’s elite.
As for Gold Gloves, that is heavily influenced by other factors. Look at Outs Above Average, where they factor in positioning, distance, exit velocity of the ball, probability of a hit, etc. Bader is elite.April 18, 2021 at 7:50 pm #158549
Bader – somehow injured his forearm.
This is ridiculous. You act like no players other than Bader have ever been injured before.April 18, 2021 at 7:51 pm #158550
O’Neill and Bader have never been ranked anywhere near that high.
O’Neill and Bader both peaked around 90. And how high they were ranked as prospects does not matter, it’s how well they perform in the majors.April 18, 2021 at 7:55 pm #158551
Brian – please step into your moderator role and tell this little fellow to follow the posting rules. Thanks.
“little fellow”? I would expect a grandfather to behave with more decorum.April 18, 2021 at 8:03 pm #158552
Any keyboard thug who calls people names on a board like this is a “little person”.
Like a little kid on the playground calling people names. The title is appropriate.April 18, 2021 at 8:08 pm #158553jj-cf-stlParticipantPaid - Annual
because keyboard thug is not name calling. I’ve got work boots with more intelligence than you.April 18, 2021 at 8:13 pm #158554
That’s right, you’re a “brave” keyboard thug. Putting other people down, calling them names, and now insulting their intelligence. You’re out of control, jj. Calm down and act like a congenial adult.April 18, 2021 at 8:14 pm #158555stlcard25ParticipantPaid - Annual
O’Neill and Bader both peaked around 90. And how high they were ranked as prospects does not matter, it’s how well they perform in the majors.
Hey LA…O’Neill actually got into the 30s on several lists before 2017 and 2019, and I can’t recall which list but I think he was in the 20s on one list in season during 2018. But Bader never got above around 80th. Neither were quite as high as Carlson, although O’Neill was closer.April 18, 2021 at 8:19 pm #158556RatsbuddyParticipantFree
Nobody has yet explained to me why we are NOT interested in Jon Jay. He seems a better option than anything we currently have.
r/Esteemed RatApril 18, 2021 at 8:28 pm #158557
LA has been gulping down that Baderade. He even mentioned Bader as an elite defender like Jim Edmonds. In the same sentence. Jim Edmonds won 8 gold gloves. This place has gone nuts. Bader is a carbon copy of Peter Bourjos. No more, no less.April 18, 2021 at 8:41 pm #158558stlcard25ParticipantPaid - Annual
You know, bc, I used to think of you as an intelligent and passionate poster, who rooted for our guys no matter what. Someone who had some sort of connection with the team itself and dropped some interesting insights into the way our owners thought.
For the last year or so, you’ve been on a rampage of negativity. It seems to be blasted at certain players and while no one is saying there’s not room to criticize, when it’s every post in every thread and every day, it gets old. You know this and you keep on poking the beehive because you know it riles people up. There is a name for this… it’s called trolling. That’s not name calling, it’s simply defining what you’ve been doing.
It’s actually ruining the forum for a lot of us and whenever we call you on it, it probably turns off any of the others reading because it looks like a place that is not what TCN has always been known as. Don’t you think we can do better than that?April 18, 2021 at 8:59 pm #158560
RatsBuddy…..my good buddy from way back in 2006. I hate to break the news to you, but at this juncture of his long storied career, Jonathan Henry Jay…..I don’t want to mince words here ….but Jon Jay pretty much sucks honeysuckle pie.April 18, 2021 at 9:06 pm #158563
I understand, 25. I’ve always been an optimist as far as the Cards are concerned, and especially as far as the prospects. For a long, long time. But what got to me was watching the outfield deteriorate over the past several years. And the outfield for the Cardinals has always been important. Some of our best players over the decades have played out there. When we didn’t resign Ozuna, or get another good player to replace him out there, I felt it was a huge mistake. And I honestly don’t see the ceilings of Thomas, Bader, and Williams being exciting. Carlson will be a
staple and O’Neill has an outside shot.
But when I compiled the stats for all our minor leaguers after the 2019 season, the void of any exciting outfield prospects in the upper 4 levels really got to me.
But when I detract from the good posts of others I recognize the problem. And I’ll do something to stop that. Right now. Thanks for your thoughtful post, 25. Apologies and best wishes to all.April 18, 2021 at 9:10 pm #158564
Don’t go Cranny!! I don’t think anyone of us wants that.April 18, 2021 at 10:32 pm #158567
Rats, Jon Jay for each one of the last 4 years has been below replacement value on offense. On defense he has been replacement value. He has basically performed the same as all of the outfielders some have been wanting to get rid of. Considering the outfielders we have are underperforming, Jay doesn’t sound like a good option to me.
I know you don’t like WAR but it is saying the same thing as his stats that you do pay attention to.
Jay’s WAR from 2018 through today: -0.7
Justin Williams 2021: 0.1
Lane Thomas 2021: -0.1
Tyler O’Neill 2021: -0.2
Austin Dean 2021: 0.0
Dylan Carlson 2021: 0.6
The thing about these WAR figures is that the 2021 figures are based on very small samples sizes and are subject to swing once more data is generated. However, those figures won’t go too much further negative but could go a lot more positive. At 36 years old, Jay’s figures are not going to go very much towards the positive in light of his last 3 years.April 18, 2021 at 10:44 pm #158568
I think we pretty much told Rats the same thing, Forschster.April 19, 2021 at 12:03 am #158570
I know that Pugs, but we both know that Rats was really looking for someone to explain it in at least a little detail. If all we said was that Jay currently sucks, Rats would wonder why. I just put a little bit of info that would show why he sucks. I didn’t want to spend a 1,000 words to say something that could maybe be explained a little quicker. I didn’t want to go into the facts that, over the last 3 years, Jay has only hit .238, struck out more and walked less than he had for his whole career.
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