Thomas out and Hurst in

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  • #158530
    Avatarbccran
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    Bader – somehow injured his forearm.
    O’Neill – pulled groin. Weightlifter.
    Thomas – sent down a second time
    Thomas – hitting a blazing .193

    Train Wreck.

    Carlson has the only legitimate long term potential.

    #158532
    Avatarblingboy
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    cranny I assume that second Thomas is Williams, and I have him at .194. Thomas was hitting .222.

    You forgot Dean, he is part of the pile.

    #158534
    Avatarbccran
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    I don’t consider Dean or Edman part of the equation. In the off season, Mo was counting on a starting OF of O’Neill, Bader, and Carlson. With Thomas and Williams #4
    and #5. That’s the group that he rolled the dice with. And the group that’s a train wreck so far. With the exception of Carlson, who’s the sole legitimate long term starter candidate.

    #158535
    Avatarforsch31
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    bccran

    Carlson, who’s the sole legitimate long term starter candidate.

    That’s only 1 man’s position. It seems the most important people: Mo, Girsch and Schildt, don’t think that way.

    #158537
    Avatarmudville
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    I think Dean is a legitimate possibility and definitely part of the equation when considering the outfield. I’d like to see him get regular starts for an extended period. I’m still My biggest surprise so far has been Thomas. A sliding catch has it’s place every once in awhile, but Thomas seems to do it every other inning which makes it seem like he doesn’t really know how else to field the ball.

    BTW, I can’t help but wonder if Carpenter’s truly pathetic play isn’t putting a damper on the whole team, including the outfield. Shildty had better wake up before too much damage is done.

    #158538
    Avatarbccran
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    Mo and Girsch know that Carlson is a fine talent. Ranked #17 prospect in all the minor leagues in 2020. O’Neill and Bader have never been ranked anywhere near that high. And Thomas and Willians have never sniffed the top 100 list. I go along with the experts’ opinions, Forsch. You’re right, I’m only one man.

    #158542
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    Mrperkins said:
    “It’s almost like you’re trying to pick a fight”

    It’s called trolling. Followed by the poor little victim routine. One option is don’t feed the troll with replies.

    #158543
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    Brian – please step into your moderator role and tell this little fellow to follow the posting rules. Thanks.

    #158548
    AvatarLACardFan
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    Bader’s defense is overrated. Can’t go back well, so he plays deep. Wasn’t even close to earning GG last season.

    Bader’s defense gives him a FLOOR of a 3 WAR player. During 2019, when he had a .680 OPS, he put up 2.3 bWAR, or roughly 3.4 WAR/600

    In 2018 & 2020, when he put up OPS of .756 & .779, he was worth nearly 5 bWAR/600.

    Your hatred of Bader skews your opinion of his value.

    As for not being able to go back to the wall, that was a comment he made to Jim Edmonds, who was an elite center fielder as well. Edmonds made his name by crashing into walls, Bader makes his by covering ground. One is not better than the other. As long as Bader can cover ground, he’s elite.

    As for Gold Gloves, that is heavily influenced by other factors. Look at Outs Above Average, where they factor in positioning, distance, exit velocity of the ball, probability of a hit, etc. Bader is elite.

    #158549
    AvatarLACardFan
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    Bader – somehow injured his forearm.

    This is ridiculous. You act like no players other than Bader have ever been injured before.

    #158550
    AvatarLACardFan
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    O’Neill and Bader have never been ranked anywhere near that high.

    O’Neill and Bader both peaked around 90. And how high they were ranked as prospects does not matter, it’s how well they perform in the majors.

    #158551
    AvatarLACardFan
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    Brian – please step into your moderator role and tell this little fellow to follow the posting rules. Thanks.

    “little fellow”? I would expect a grandfather to behave with more decorum.

    #158552
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    Any keyboard thug who calls people names on a board like this is a “little person”.
    Like a little kid on the playground calling people names. The title is appropriate.

    #158553
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    because keyboard thug is not name calling. I’ve got work boots with more intelligence than you.

    #158554
    Avatarbccran
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    That’s right, you’re a “brave” keyboard thug. Putting other people down, calling them names, and now insulting their intelligence. You’re out of control, jj. Calm down and act like a congenial adult.

    #158555
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    O’Neill and Bader both peaked around 90. And how high they were ranked as prospects does not matter, it’s how well they perform in the majors.

    Hey LA…O’Neill actually got into the 30s on several lists before 2017 and 2019, and I can’t recall which list but I think he was in the 20s on one list in season during 2018. But Bader never got above around 80th. Neither were quite as high as Carlson, although O’Neill was closer.

    #158556
    RatsbuddyRatsbuddy
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    Nobody has yet explained to me why we are NOT interested in Jon Jay. He seems a better option than anything we currently have.

    r/Esteemed Rat

    #158557
    Avatarbccran
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    LA has been gulping down that Baderade. He even mentioned Bader as an elite defender like Jim Edmonds. In the same sentence. Jim Edmonds won 8 gold gloves. This place has gone nuts. Bader is a carbon copy of Peter Bourjos. No more, no less.

    #158558
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    You know, bc, I used to think of you as an intelligent and passionate poster, who rooted for our guys no matter what. Someone who had some sort of connection with the team itself and dropped some interesting insights into the way our owners thought.

    For the last year or so, you’ve been on a rampage of negativity. It seems to be blasted at certain players and while no one is saying there’s not room to criticize, when it’s every post in every thread and every day, it gets old. You know this and you keep on poking the beehive because you know it riles people up. There is a name for this… it’s called trolling. That’s not name calling, it’s simply defining what you’ve been doing.

    It’s actually ruining the forum for a lot of us and whenever we call you on it, it probably turns off any of the others reading because it looks like a place that is not what TCN has always been known as. Don’t you think we can do better than that?

    #158560
    AvatarPugsleyAddams
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    RatsBuddy…..my good buddy from way back in 2006. I hate to break the news to you, but at this juncture of his long storied career, Jonathan Henry Jay…..I don’t want to mince words here ….but Jon Jay pretty much sucks honeysuckle pie.

    #158563
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    I understand, 25. I’ve always been an optimist as far as the Cards are concerned, and especially as far as the prospects. For a long, long time. But what got to me was watching the outfield deteriorate over the past several years. And the outfield for the Cardinals has always been important. Some of our best players over the decades have played out there. When we didn’t resign Ozuna, or get another good player to replace him out there, I felt it was a huge mistake. And I honestly don’t see the ceilings of Thomas, Bader, and Williams being exciting. Carlson will be a
    staple and O’Neill has an outside shot.
    But when I compiled the stats for all our minor leaguers after the 2019 season, the void of any exciting outfield prospects in the upper 4 levels really got to me.

    But when I detract from the good posts of others I recognize the problem. And I’ll do something to stop that. Right now. Thanks for your thoughtful post, 25. Apologies and best wishes to all.

    #158564
    AvatarPugsleyAddams
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    Don’t go Cranny!! I don’t think anyone of us wants that.

    #158567
    Avatarforsch31
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    Rats, Jon Jay for each one of the last 4 years has been below replacement value on offense. On defense he has been replacement value. He has basically performed the same as all of the outfielders some have been wanting to get rid of. Considering the outfielders we have are underperforming, Jay doesn’t sound like a good option to me.

    I know you don’t like WAR but it is saying the same thing as his stats that you do pay attention to.

    Jay’s WAR from 2018 through today: -0.7
    Justin Williams 2021: 0.1
    Lane Thomas 2021: -0.1
    Tyler O’Neill 2021: -0.2
    Austin Dean 2021: 0.0
    Dylan Carlson 2021: 0.6

    The thing about these WAR figures is that the 2021 figures are based on very small samples sizes and are subject to swing once more data is generated. However, those figures won’t go too much further negative but could go a lot more positive. At 36 years old, Jay’s figures are not going to go very much towards the positive in light of his last 3 years.

    #158568
    AvatarPugsleyAddams
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    I think we pretty much told Rats the same thing, Forschster.

    #158570
    Avatarforsch31
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    I know that Pugs, but we both know that Rats was really looking for someone to explain it in at least a little detail. If all we said was that Jay currently sucks, Rats would wonder why. I just put a little bit of info that would show why he sucks. I didn’t want to spend a 1,000 words to say something that could maybe be explained a little quicker. I didn’t want to go into the facts that, over the last 3 years, Jay has only hit .238, struck out more and walked less than he had for his whole career.

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