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Carlson has a fairly high ceiling as an all around solid ball player. The rest unfortunately have too many holes in their games. It was telling when Mo said he made a mistake with Arozarena, that it made them re-assess how they value talent, then turned around and lauded the potential of Thomas this off season. His assessment re LT is looking rather foolish right now.
Conforto would be a free agent OF to keep an eye on next winter.
But once again, I think we are focused on the wrong thing. We could have Mantle, Mays, and Musial in our OF right now and it wouldn’t matter until we fix our tattered rotation. I guess we would lose in a more exciting fashion which would entertain the younger crowd though. Big whoop.
We must fix the rotation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fix both the rotation and the OF.
Help is on it’s way for the rotation with Kim, Mikolas, Oviedo, Libby, Thompson, etc. Where’s the help for the OF?Kim hasn’t pitched in a year.
Mikolas hasn’t pitched in two years.
Oviedo, Libby, and Thompson have promise but are unproven.
It is too early to declare that as help is on the way. Despite your favorite topic the truth is we are going to have talk about the pitching as much as the offense.
Wrong. Pitching has good quality in the wings – Liberatore, Thompson, Oviedo, Rondon, etc. No outfielders are close that match that talent.
Ending up with a pretty good rotation assembled from in house resources is within the realm of possibility. Not assured of course, but we have some guys who may work out and improve the picture.
Conversely, the more paint we put on the outfield picture the worse it gets. I, personally, am relegated to awaiting Bader’s return to stabilize the center field defense and let Carlson return to RF.
Wrong. Pitching has good quality in the wings – Liberatore, Thompson, Oviedo, Rondon, etc. No outfielders are close that match that talent.
Maybe so but we won’t know until we know. Once upon a time we thought Miller, Wacha, and Rosenthal were going to be the next Koosman, Ryan, and Seaver but it didn’t work out that way.
Left field is a lost cause. We do have even an OK bat to put there.
I think Dean has a decent bat.
Let the kids play while our outfield anchor is IL. We miss Bader badly, he’s the glue that holds the outfield together.
Name 4 outfielders in the upper minors who have as much baseball talent as Liberatore, Thompson, Oviedo, and Rondon.
We miss Bader badly, he’s the glue that holds the outfield together.
I have a visual of Ralphie’s Old Man trying to glue the leg lamp back together in A Christmas Story.
Bader’s the glue of the OF? Oh my.
cranny, while I might not put it in those terms, I am coming around to that conclusion. As a pre SABRspew guy like me, you know that to construct an outfield you start with good CF defense and build it out from there. If you don’t have a guy who can provide the D and hit, you have to stick the guy you have in the 8 hole and keep your eyes peeled for an upgrade. So we need to get Bader back and put him out there so we can build it out from there. Carlson does not close on it fast enough to serve the purpose at this level of play. Hurst was probably brought up rather than a guy who has a prayer of hitting MLB pitching for that reason.
To your point bb, Carlson and O’Neill can be average CF’rs. When we have an elite defensive CF’r like Bader to push them to corner outfield roles, Carlson and O’Neill become above average, to GG caliber corner outfielders. Baders presence in CF makes our corner outfielders better and the entire outfield better defensively.
Bader’s defense is overrated. Can’t go back well, so he plays deep. Wasn’t even close to earning GG last season. The finalists in CF for the NL were Acuna, Bellinger, and Grisham. HB’s far from elite. Playing too deep, he’s forced to make those lunging catches coming in.
Wow. I understand bagging on Bader’s hitting issues but he is an excellent center fielder. He passes the eye test and all the metrics. Don’t let your disdain for him cloud the things he does that are positive. It’s almost like you are just trying to pick a fight.
IMO, Bader far exceeds Carlson and O’Neill as to CF defense. Playing deep and coming in is not a sin. Results in some extra singles. Not closing on balls to either side is a sin. Results in too many gappers. (More old school outfield construction for dummies) I know the Carlson and O’Neill bandwagon peeps want to believe. So be it. I think Mo brought up Hurst for late inning CF defense mainly because there is no other logical reason he was brought up. So I see that as evidence Mo and I are on the same page here. Not to say Shildt got the memo on that, but we will see when we have a small lead to protect late.
I’m not picking a fight. I’m drawing from articles written about his D.
Question – why wasn’t he at least a finalist if his D is so elite?cranny you are looking at Bader’s as compared to what other organizations have. I am talking about what we have. That is the entire talent pool for the foreseeable future.
Bader wasn’t a Gold Glove finalist last year because the awards were entirely based on the metrics, where one or two plays could make a big difference in a very short season.
Since 2018, he’s 2nd in staring CF defensive metrics per Fangraphs, behind Kiermaier. He’s 3rd in defensive runs saved, 2nd in UZR, 1st in UZR/150, 4th best arm (ArmR), 2nd best range (RgR), 3rd in Statcast Outs Above Average (very strong going right, middle of the pack going left and strong going back, in case that narrative needs debunked). He makes most of the plays you’d want and some you don’t expect.
As far as the other years, Bader was deserving of finalist status for the GG in 2018 and 2019, and was honored as such in 2019. The reason he wasn’t in 2018 is the well known fact that reputation plays heavily into such things, fairly or not.
Of course bc was picking a fight regarding Bader. He was wrong, just like he is about the much stronger and concentrated talent in today’s game compared to the 1950s and 60s.
Of course bc was picking a fight regarding Bader. He was wrong, just like he is about the much stronger and concentrated talent in today’s game compared to the 1950s and 60s.
My God, please quit it, please?
Bader is most certainly the glue to our OF.
There is even a rumor going around that offense is not the only category worth considering when building a team.
If Bader is the “glue” to this unproven and now underperforming outfield, we’re in
even more trouble than I thought we were in.Before todays games, our outfield ranked tied for 14th by BR, at 0.7war
Only 7 teams have accumulated at least 1.0 war at this stage of the season. OAK leads with 2.0STL as team, 1.4 (through 14 games)
by position:
SP -0.8
RP -0.1
C 0.8
1B -0.1
2B 0.4
3B 0.6
SS -0.2
LF -0.1
CF 0.4
RF 0.4
OF 0.7That’s actual, and if a link is asked for it will be provided. You decide if “underperforming outfield” is accurate, or fake drama.
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