The Outfield and Fowler

Home The Cardinal Nation Forums Open Forum The Outfield and Fowler

Viewing 25 posts - 26 through 50 (of 96 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #124389
    Avatar1982 willie
    Participant

    Free

    Fowler was a bad get day one, don’t care what he did the first season. But fowler fits what ownership always tries to do. Stay away from any high cost superstars, get a mid tier guy at best and hope he performs above expectations hence making them look like they are smarter than everyone else. At best fowler should ride the pine, it reality he should be let go.

    #124390
    Avatar858booyah
    Participant

    Free

    What I always watch for in Fowler is his ability to hit the heat from the left side of the plate because no one should let him hit from the right.

    They’ll give him a few weeks. Isn’t he known as a slow starter? That’ll be another excuse for him. Won’t be much else by mother’s day or the Ted Savage GolfClassic to save him after that.

    #124395
    AvatarBob Reed
    Participant

    Free

    “Matheny benched Fowler, not Shildt. Fowler started 15 of 17 before the foot injury, once Shildt took over, and appeared in all 17.”

    This is correct, of course. Matheny benched Fowler in 2018, not Shildt. In fact Shildt has never shown any inclination by word or deed toward treating Fowler remotely close to the same as everyone else. “Defer to Dex” has been Mike Shildt’s unspoken managerial mantra from Day One as boss.

    Recapping. In 2018, Mike Matheny had Fowler in the starting lineup for 48 of the first 64 games. At the end of the 64th game, which took place on June 11, Delicate Dexter was hitting a hateful .173/.276/.286. So finally, mercifully, Matheny benched him on June 12 in favor of Harrison Bader.

    Fowler started just 11 of the next 29 games. Then Matheny was fired, and Shildt immediately & inexplicably restored Fowler to the starting lineup despite a still-abysmal slash line of .174/.270/.285 — incredibly, despite several better outfield choices, Shildt played the floundering Fowler even more frequently than Matheny had over the first two months of the season. (With Fowler now dementedly cemented by Shildt into the starting lineup, the front office wound up having to trade Tommy Pham for 50 cents on the dollar in order to get Bader back into the everyday eight.)

    ——————————————-

    Mike Shildt has done an excellent job with the Redbird rotation during his year-and-a-half tenure, and has been solid with the pen as well. But he’s been plain bad with the everyday lineups, just awful. Right now for example he’s scratching his head raw trying to figure out whether DeJong or Goldschmidt should bat cleanup in 2020. Here are some career numbers for both:

    Goldy, bases empty, has a career OPS just 67 points higher than DeJong’s (.854 to .787).
    Goldy with men on base however, 208 points higher than DeJong (.990 to .782).
    And Goldy with RISP, 310 points above DeJong (1.004 to .694).

    But I digress. From all we have seen, Mike Shildt lacks the guts or brains or both to bench Fowler himself. Shildt’s Dexter devotion says to me that the only way the Cards will play their best outfield with Shildt as manager, is when Fowler is retired or released. I see that release happening in June or July of this year, when the front office takes Shildt’s favorite toy away from him.

    #124397
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I made a harsh comment about Dexter, but with reason. The lack of effort and sense of urgency got on Matheny’s nerves big time. Dexter was a World Champion, Dexter was revered in America’s third largest city as a member of the storied Cubs that broke the curse. Dexter was a hero in Chicago. Dexter was getting paid big time dollars over 5 years by the Cardinals. Dexter had achieved everything that Dexter had set out to do. He was home free. The tension between Matheny and Dexter became a large and harmful distraction to the team.
    Someone had to go. Mo made the call.

    #124401
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Some interesting conclusions on history offered above.

    – Pham was traded because Fowler was playing and they needed room for Bader.

    – Matheny was fired because of tension with Fowler.

    Nothing like another Fowler thread to bring out the comments… 😉

    #124403
    AvatarCardfan7791
    Participant

    Free

    Looking back, I’m not that broken up about the Pham trade, or parting ways with Matheny. But the fact that they were both issues connected to Fowler bothers me immensely. Now he’s going to get the starting job in RF over a younger player who, while still unproven, is outperforming Fowler and has a chance to continue to develop and contribute to the team.

    How much damage are they going to allow one player to do to the team/season, because the FO made a bad deal. Put our best team on the field, regardless of salaries.

    I know it’s easier being an armchair quarterback and questioning the decisions that are made, but I feel like you’d have to be blind not to see this one. Fowler is a bum.

    #124404
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    JM likes to get an ROI on a player investment. If Fowler is benched, the ROI becomes zero. But if it becomes untenable and a problem on or among the team, he will have to be
    sitting.

    #124407
    AvatarCardfan7791
    Participant

    Free

    JM likes to get an ROI on a player investment. If Fowler is benched, the ROI becomes zero.

    Wouldn’t we all. But what return are we going to get from him. I mean Fowler is a capable outfielder, but he is a detriment to the team every time his spot comes up in the order. His 1.7 WAR is hardly irreplaceable. He’s projected to hit .235 (which I think is a reach). Statistically, what is the argument for making him the starting RF?

    #124408
    Avatargscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    The Cubs have never found a suitable leadoff hitter since Fowler left. They loved him and probably still miss him. On the flip side, they can’t stand Heyward. His contract has prevented them from many upgrades.

    Both teams should admit their mistakes and do a trade. Fowler and Cecil to the Cubs for Heyward and cash.

    #124410
    Avatar14NyquisT
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    C-27…. that .122 is not a conclusive stat when you consider that Mozeliak’s ego will make sure that Fowler starts. Its a sad commentary but so far Dexter still wins out over any OF competition. He gets a free pass because the front office pushed his value when he was signed and damn it they’re still going to wait for him to return to his ’16 season numbers. I still believe that Mozeliak promised him starting time when he went to Las Vegas to coddle a temperamental Fowler. What other reasonable explanation is there?

    Meanwhile the fans get to watch a joke clogging up some valuable ABs. And his defense IMO is worse than JMart’s, and hard on the eyes. His lack of hustle makes any ball hit to RF need to be hit very close to him or it becomes an adventure. At least we won’t have to watch Ozuna bumbling in LF anymore. What a corner OF duo that was. Brutal.

    #124417
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Bottom line question. What kind of outfielder who’s being paid $16.5 million per year doesn’t hustle after a ball in the gap or in the corner? And it’s a ball player who hustled in Chicago. Actually, one of the issues as a separate matter is his dislike of St. Louis.

    #124420
    AvatarCardinals27
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Much like Carpenter, I dislike any player’s approach when they don’t try and beat a defense that has the shift on.

    #124421
    AvatarNigel T
    Participant

    Paid - Three Months

    Chemistry matters. Maybe Shildt isn’t as weak as Bob and others imply. A happy Dex provides value; a moping Dex offers tension.
    When the money points to Dex playing, and it adds to the team’s chemistry, it is a logical choice not a personality flaw.

    #124425
    AvatarCardfan7791
    Participant

    Free

    Chemistry matters. Maybe Shildt isn’t as weak as Bob and others imply. A happy Dex provides value; a moping Dex offers tension.

    Chemistry does matter to an extent. So does leadership and effort. Fowler has none of these. The lack of these traits could potentially be overlooked if he performed his job on the field and at the plate well. But he doesn’t.

    If your approach is “I start, or I wreak havoc with my attitude and presence in the clubhouse.” That’s not a team first approach, and you’re not a teammate that I want.

    Compare Fowler with Bader. Neither one are great at the plate, and there is plenty of debate around Bader offense. But there is no question at all about his defense and hustle. By all accounts, he’s a positive and fun personality in the clubhouse.

    #124429
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Cf7791 said:

    But there is no question at all about his (Bader’s) defense and hustle. By all accounts, he’s a positive and fun personality in the clubhouse.

    OK, but who has written that Fowler is a bad teammate and is not liked in the clubhouse?

    My take is that if Fowler was hitting, fans would be raving about his “infectious smile” and positive attitude.

    For example, here is a quote from Wainwright two weeks ago:

    “Everyone’s rooting for Dex,” said Cardinals veteran Adam Wainwright. “Because he’s such a good dude in here. He’s got that smile, we want to see that big smile again. He’s got an infectious personality…”

    #124432
    AvatarCardfan7791
    Participant

    Free

    When he’s doing well and the club is winning

    #124434
    AvatarPadsFS
    Participant

    Free

    Cardfan7791

    If your approach is “I start, or I wreak havoc with my attitude and presence in the clubhouse.” That’s not a team first approach, and you’re not a teammate that I want.

    Good thing that doesn’t apply to Fowler whatsoever. Perhaps that could be said of Tommy Pham, but certainly not Fowler.

    #124438
    Avatar14NyquisT
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    If your approach is “I start, or I wreak havoc with my attitude and presence in the clubhouse.”

    Pham spent more time in the clubhouse…. at least Fowler is last one in and first one out easing some tension in time hanging around and griping.

    #124440
    Avatar1964cards
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    The Front Office was hoping (as was I) that Fowler would be able to provide an offensive lift to the ball club. His first season ended up not being too bad. His slash line was down from the year before, but slightly above career BA and OBP numbers and much higher SLG and OPS career numbers. Then the train came off the tracks.

    It would be great if the club could trade Dexter. However, it is highly unlikely there will be any takers until his offense takes off and the Cardinals are willing to eat a significant amount of his salary. I expect Dexter will be with the club this season and next. I do not remember the last time the Cardinals just ate a contract and released a player and I do not expect him to retire until his contract has been completed.

    #124471
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    How are O’Neill, Bader, and Fowler doing as far as strike out rate this spring? Has it improved?
    Didn’t O’Neill and Bader work on contact over the off season?

    #124495
    Euro DandyEuro Dandy
    Participant

    Free

    This Spring:

    O’Neill PA = 36, K% = 38.9%, BB% = 13.9%
    Bader PA = 38, K% = 31.6%, BB% = 15.8%
    Fowler PA = 28, K% = 35.7%, BB% = 10.7%

    Last season:

    O’Neill PA = 151, K% = 35.1%, BB% = 6.6%
    Bader PA = 406, K% = 28.8%, BB% = 11.3%
    Fowler PA = 574, K% = 24.7%, BB% = 12.9%

    #124499
    Avatarmudville
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Fowler’s BA is .080 which says enough about what kind of spring he’s having. He did dive for a ball in one of the games over the weekend. He didn’t catch the ball, but it looked like an all out effort. Fowler is not a bad ballplayer or a bad person for that matter. But he does give the impression that he is not willing to lay it all out there to win games and win the hearts of the fans. I think that’s why some people hate the guy.

    #124527
    AvatarCardsFanInChiTown
    Participant

    Free

    Fowler with another 0-4 performance today with 2K’s. His average is now down to .069 and his OPS is down to .225. If he’s not showing serious signs of life in two weeks, how can they automatically give him RF? Thomas(LF), Bader and Oneill (RF due to his cannon) with Ravelo getting a few starts would be more productive than Fowler out there.

    #124540
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
    Participant

    Free

    top 3 this ST, to date:
    Thomas now leading all outfielders w/a .963 ops, w/Dean right on his heels at .931 and Carlson at .916

    #125030
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    There are those who spend time around the team who say Fowler is the most self absorbed player they have ever seen.

Viewing 25 posts - 26 through 50 (of 96 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

First-hand news and commentary on the St. Louis Cardinals™ and their minor league system for 20 years