The Outfield and Fowler

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  • #124326
    AvatarCardfan7791
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    So is it just me, or is anybody else concerned about Fowler terrible spring performance? In 25 spring AB’s the guy is hitting .080. We hear talk all the time about guys earning their spot, and how we’re trying to create competition for playing time. But that’s just talk right, because by all accounts he’s going to get the RF job even though D. Carlson (.375), H. Bader (.296), T. O’Neil (.280), L. Thomas (.259), and A. Dean (.250) are all hitting much better than he is.

    I know the guy is getting paid, and money plays a big part in things, but how much rope is the front office willing to give this guy? We’ve got hungry young talent coming up behind him that are performing better, but we just keep hanging with in there with Fowler? It makes no sense. We made a bad bet, swallow it and move on.

    To be transparent, I’ve not been a fan of Fowlers for a few years, so I’m bias, but I want to see the Cards but their best team on the field…Fowler ain’t it. So what will the outfield look like this year? And to further that question, what should it look like this year?

    #124329
    AvatarCariocaCardinal
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    I dont think a bad Spring changes much for Fowler. Might shorten his leash slightly.in April/May

    #124331
    AvatarCardfan7791
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    I don’t disagree. It’s all driven by his large guaranteed contract, but it drives me crazy. In 3 years with the club he’s hit a combined .227

    For a team looking to improve its offense, this doesn’t make sense. This spring he’s going to injure his neck by looking up at the Mendoza line. How much of time are they going to give him. He’s clogging up the outfield. Is hitting .214 (if he can manage to get there) enough to earn an everyday roster spot?

    #124332
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    Spring stats are just that…spring stats. Like CC I think it might shorten his runway in the early season but I don’t know that he would be dropped this soon unless there’s more going on behind the scenes.

    #124333
    RatsbuddyRatsbuddy
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    Memorial Day seems to be the point of no return. If he’s still floundering by then its time to give someone else the everyday chance.

    r/Esteemed Rat

    #124334
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    I’ll concur about giving him until early May. But if he hasn’t turned it around, will they make the decision to pull him? They seem stubbornly married to this guy. I know he’s getting paid $16.5 million a year, but we are not getting anywhere near that value from him on the field.

    Just for comparison, Fowler’s regular season batting average over the three years he’s been with the Cards is .227 His spring training average over the same period has been .260

    As far as “Spring stats are just that…spring stats.” His spring stats have been far better than his regular season stats.

    #124335
    AvatarSoonerinNC
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    Stats mean nothing at this point. The final two weeks of spring training games a little more. But with relative inexperience at the other two outfield spots will probably give Fowler a bit more time. Shildt basically benched him in 2018 before he broke his foot. If he doesn’t get it together soon someone may break the other foot.

    I too have never been a fan of Fowler. He was on my list of center fielders not to sign when we signed him. Another was Ozuna who was just as bad a center fielder as he was in left. I did think that Ozuna would hit a lot better and was for his signing as a left fielder even with his poor defense.

    #124338
    Euro DandyEuro Dandy
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    We made a bad bet, swallow it and move on.

    This doesn’t happen enough in the MLB player personnel construct. Too many marginal emotional and other human factors at play to treat sunk costs appropriately in some cases — some organizations more than others.

    Fowler is the recurring bad dream that seems to have been around forever, and yet there are still two more years of it remaining. What a bad contract.

    #124340
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    Cardfan7791

    Just for comparison, Fowler’s regular season batting average over the three years he’s been with the Cards is .227 His spring training average over the same period has been .260

    Batting average isn’t everything (also, his BA is .233, not .227). He’s had a .335 OBP over the same time-frame, which is what Fowler is more known for.

    Secondly, if you remove his abysmal 2018 season, his Cardinal line is .250/.353/.445/.799, or slightly BETTER than his career line of .260/.359/.419/.778.

    Let’s see how this plays out. The fact of the matter is that we aren’t going to play someone that hurts us for very long when we have other options available.

    #124341
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    It’s too bad that we signed Fowler when we did. A year or 2 after it seemed the price for marginal players has come down in both annual value and term length.

    #124343
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    Not sure why we’d excuse his 2018 season. He hit what he hit. .180 over 289 at bats. Which is .100 points above what he’s hitting this spring. Is he likely to turn it on once the games count. Not likely.

    He hasn’t earned the free pass stars sometimes get when they slump or have a slow spring. Feels like this guy has been one long slump since coming from the Cubs. What does he care…he gets paid $16.5 mil a year regardless.

    I hope I’m wrong and he winds up being a serious contributor to a winning Cardinals team. I just haven’t seen anything that would indicate that.

    #124344
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    Same old story I guess, sign a guy to a long term contract when things are looking bleak (or in an up year) and end up regretting it when things are better. Dexter and somebodyelse have played enough to be consistently good. But so far this year its scary again as they’re out lookin for thier swings. Wish whoever hid them would give em back!

    #124345
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    Same old story I guess, sign a guy to a long term contract when things are looking bleak (or in an up year) and end up regretting it when things are better.

    Yeah, both the Fowler and Leake deals look like they were effective one year stopgaps that would have been better had they been avoided. I think the team has taken more of that attitude lately, but apart from signing your home grown stars to extensions, the team hasn’t exactly been making big splashes in free agency lately.

    #124347
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    Yeah Stl 25 one thing I’ve always liked about us is our good developed players working up through the farm system. But it does seem to me we end up getting free agents for the power bats but about half the seasons it turns out the be a bust. Like a hit or miss thing. Just don’t see power hitters coming up through the ranks?

    #124351
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    I think that Fowler is getting a bum rap. There has to be some sort of new stat to show why he should be our regular RF. That stretch out attempt for a diving catch that went for a hit shows that he is trying.
    2Ks and a BB.

    #124352
    Avatarmudville
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    There’s too much negativity here. Give Fowler a fresh start in a place like Colorado, for example, and he’d probably OPS .900.

    #124353
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    I’m in no way saying that he isn’t trying. But there’s a big difference between trying and succeeding. His hitting is abysmal and his defense is hardly irreplaceable. He should not be our regular RF. We have other options which could develop into more reliable piece of the offense.

    I’ll gladly eat my words should he wind up producing at a high level in the regular season. I’m just not convinced. And, in what will likely be a serious dog fight in the NL Central, I don’t think we have 3 months to let him prove himself capable again before pulling the trigger on another option.

    #124361
    Avatarbccran
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    Dex is all about Dex.

    #124365
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    LF-O’Neill
    CF-Bader
    RF-Edman

    #124367
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    LF-O’Neill
    CF-Bader
    RF-Edman

    Fowler will start and Carlson will be up to start in RF by June. Edman will get occasion starts at 2B, 3B, CF and maybe SS. He’ll probably play 4-5 times a week unless he has a sophomore slump.

    #124371
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    Matheny benched Fowler, not Shildt. Fowler started 15 of 17 before the foot injury, once Shildt took over, and appeared in all 17.

    Fowler had a poor ST prior to 2019 also (.571 ops, 52 PA’s), but he did have a .786 first half of 19′.
    There’s that…. and now I’m tapped out.

    #124379
    kscardfankscardfan
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    A chocolate malt says that Fowler will have a higher average than Bader at the end of April. Spring Training Averages are just that.

    #124381
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    Edman will start somewhere every day.

    #124382
    Euro DandyEuro Dandy
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    Here are the Bader – Fowler combined defensive stats for 2018 & 2019:

    1787.0 innings / -5 defensive runs saved (that’s negative 5)
    1824.2 innings / 31 defensive runs saved

    Can you figure out which one is Fowler? Sure you can.

    Here are the Bader – Fowler combined offensive stats for 2018 & 2019:

    833 plate appearances: 0.236 / 0.324 / 0.395 / 0.719
    908 plate appearances: 0.216 / 0.321 / 0.367 / 0.688

    Can you figure out which one is Fowler? He’s the one with the lower slash line.

    If it were only spring stats we had to worry about….but then again, maybe he lit it up last post-season when it really counts. I don’t recall.

    #124384
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    Wow, Dexter is batting .122 from last September thru last years playoffs and including 2020 Spring Training.

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