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The study I was reading was fairly dated so no. I’m sure there is variance now in types of surgery and the way those surgeries are performed.
I think Bling’s points that shoulder surgery is bad and that recovery times are long in general (if they ever recover) are valid. He went a little overboard by saying it never works. But he has been known to use hyperbole before.
He went a little overboard by saying it never works.
I didn’t say it never works. I said they are never better after shoulder surgery that they were before.
The landscape with elbow surgery is different. That doesn’t always work either but it usually does. It has been said that, at least in some cases, the elbow ends up better than new and the pitcher can actually be better post TJ and before. At the least, having had the surgery doesn’t have to hamper further development. This is absolutely not the case with shoulder surgery.
Does the type of shoulder surgery matter? Also, do the studies differentiate between arthroscopic surgery and going under the knife? The latter is clearly more significant.
It seems intuitive that more invasive procedures would tend to have worse immediate outcomes, but that is beside the point. The issue is that whatever the injury, and however it is fixed, it was caused by the structure being subjected to stress that it could not tolerate. In the case of an elbow, a TJ can make the elbow able to tolerate stress that is could not tolerate before, so the pitcher, once recovered, can pick up where he left off. There is no procedure to accomplish that as to a shoulder as far as I have been able to find out. So whether the damage is fixed by arthroscopic or otherwise, if the pitcher resumes doing what he was, the damage will occur again, and it is cumulative. This is why, as I have explained, the pitcher must discover some mechanics that the shoulder will be able to tolerate and try to be effective with that. If he tries to be the same pitcher he was, he just reinjures it and goes down again.
This same argument applies even if the injury is treated by just resting until the inflammation goes down. It is what I tried to argue last year as to Roby. If he came back trying to be the pitcher he was, he would reinjure the shoulder and be out again, the same as before except now with cumulative damage. If he tried coming back pitching a different way, then there is the double risk of not being effective or of his shoulder not tolerating the new mechanics any better than the old. Whatever the case, he is not going to be the same as he was, he might be equivalent, but the odds are heavily against that. Understanding all that, it becomes clear that it does not make sense to keep him up on the top prospect list, since that guy is not the guy who will be coming back.
This line of reasoning applies to all of the bum shoulder guys, of which we have a ton clogging up the upper part of the prospect list.
At no. 44 in The Cardinal Nation’s #STLCards 2025 Top 50 prospect countdown is Springfield’s steady shortstop. Despite always being young for his level, Jeremy Rivas is running out of time to fully emerge offensively. ($) https://t.co/gByXHqfSJZ pic.twitter.com/LPpZyOmRCJ
— Brian Walton (@B_Walton) November 18, 2024
The Cardinal Nation’s 2025 #STLCards Top 50 prospect countdown stops at no. 43 with Edwin Nuñez, a hard-throwing right-hander who at Double-A took a backward step with his command. ($) https://t.co/qURnOA6YLx pic.twitter.com/8pQYMZnMX2
— Brian Walton (@B_Walton) November 19, 2024
He probably looks awful skinny at 6’7 and 188 lbs.
Could someone dig up a photo of Wainwright in low A for comparison?
At no. 42 in The Cardinal Nation’s #stlcards 2025 Top 50 prospect countdown is Leonel Sequera, a right-hander who finished strongly in the Palm Beach rotation in his age 18 season. ($) https://t.co/Sp5zaTQk8z pic.twitter.com/IWmuptZ8A3
— Brian Walton (@B_Walton) November 20, 2024
The Cardinal Nation’s 2025 #stlcards Top 50 prospect countdown reaches no. 41 with Ian Petrutz (@IPetrutz) a bat-first OF who outperformed the organization’s entire draft class in his 2024 professional debut. ($) https://t.co/g5JvGNRg08 pic.twitter.com/MURtnN6SaH
— Brian Walton (@B_Walton) November 21, 2024
The Cardinal Nation’s #stlcards Top 50 prospect countdown for 2025 reaches no. 40 with Brycen Mautz, a lefty who after making an adjustment to his offerings at High-A, finished the 2024 regular season strongly. Free report! https://t.co/mMVpUDksto pic.twitter.com/8zFfUT03su
— Brian Walton (@B_Walton) November 22, 2024
At no. 39 on The Cardinal Nation’s #STLCards 2025 Top 50 prospect countdown is Andre Granillo, a right-handed strikeout specialist very close to the majors – except for an ongoing command challenge. ($) https://t.co/TMibgRRCGM pic.twitter.com/LE8AUNF5TR
— Brian Walton (@B_Walton) November 23, 2024
Brian, I am wondering how you and Blake will handle the Kloffenstein non tender since you already have the bottom part of your list set. For me and the community, we are starting at the top, so we each just slide the bottom part up and add a new #50, but that doesn’t work for you. Do you stick a guy who was not in your top 50 into your list now, in the 30s?
Good question. The answer is “it depends”. We’ve had to deal with this in the past and stay flexible. Either we leave his spot blank or adjust the list if/when they make a trade or add a Rule 5 guy who is prospect worthy.
We won’t put #51 is as #50 and move everyone up a spot. Too much changing and potential confusion. And it doesn’t make sense to put #51 in as #38, for example.
Once or twice, because of late changes (trades, Rule 5, etc.), we ended up with 51 prospects, with an extra player, number 24a, for example, inserted into the list. We did that with Rule 5 addition Ryan Fernandez last year. That is my guess on how we handle 2025. At this point, the Cards have two open roster spots heading into Rule 5, but we shall see what happens there in a couple of weeks.
Mo should have checked in before doing anything rash. A TCN membership would be way cheaper than hiring extra FO wonks.
The Cardinal Nation’s #STLCards 2025 Top 50 prospect countdown reaches no. 38 with a switch-hitting shortstop who has drawn considerable national attention at just 17 years of age. Who is Yairo Padilla? ($) https://t.co/y0pgmeN6Gp pic.twitter.com/rtpRUsTsdi
— Brian Walton (@B_Walton) November 24, 2024
Coming in at no. 37 on The Cardinal Nation’s #STLCards 2025 Top 50 prospect countdown is an 18-year-old right-hander who finished third in ERA in the Dominican Summer League and is US-bound. ($) https://t.co/5oizDe9qWe pic.twitter.com/fBLHtXERf3
— Brian Walton (@B_Walton) November 25, 2024
The Cardinal Nation’s #stlcards 2025 Top 50 prospect countdown reaches no. 36 with @peterhansen33, a dependable left hander who improved in the second half of each of his two professional seasons. ($) https://t.co/kmqCiEyqwq pic.twitter.com/ZZSSh133rs
— Brian Walton (@B_Walton) November 26, 2024
The Cardinal Nation’s #stlcards Top 50 prospect countdown for 2025 reaches no. 35 with a 2024 draft pick who has a good eye at the plate and developing defense behind it. Free report! https://t.co/lnxMVMM6nr pic.twitter.com/IKUjKnUTJK
— Brian Walton (@B_Walton) November 27, 2024
The Cardinal Nation’s #STLCards 2025 Top 50 prospect countdown reaches no. 34 with a first-year catcher who tore up the rookie-level Dominican Summer League offensively. ($) https://t.co/w8BnelNsLm pic.twitter.com/LT3VXzVvys
— Brian Walton (@B_Walton) November 28, 2024
OBP of just under .500 is eyebrow raising for any league. Can’t wait to see young Rainiel aka Rain Man, take his hacks at Palm Beach one day in the not too distant future.
Lots of DSL teenagers here in this part of the list. I get it though. We’ll see what happens. Hopefully not the same thing that always happens.
Yes, the big three from the 2024 DSL have been in the most recent six in the countdown. Still none of them are in the top 30 – yet.
At no. 33 on The Cardinal Nation’s 2025 #STLCards Top 50 prospect countdown is a pitcher who threw just 17 innings in college, but if healthy, has the potential to become a difference-maker. ($) https://t.co/SUyWfDtdoY pic.twitter.com/HfjsCQ2oaT
— Brian Walton (@B_Walton) November 29, 2024
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