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The 9th highest payroll in MLB now is $223.7 million. What’s the answer? Outspend some of the teams above the Cardinals?
There is no one factor that can magically fix the problems that have evolved over years. But the reality is that the Cardinals relative payroll spending compared to the rest of the league has eroded. That puts more pressure on the draft, player development and trades to fill the competitive gap. The break in pitching development added to the slide. And here they are… seemingly not in the same class as LA, with the gap looking to be wider than before.
I watched the first 6 innings. Some thoughts:
Thompson made some really good pitches. And he also hung about 5 breaking balls – 2 of which got hit over the wall. Although Nootbaar probably catches that 3-run homer by Teoscar Hernandez because it was just 2-3 inches over. He’s got to keep his velocity up and not hang breaking balls.
Miller was awesome. Truly ace level pitching. Everything was either on the black or 100 miles per hour. His changeup at times was amazing. He did look a little tired by the 5th when he started to get just a bit wild.
I thought Goldschmidt, Walker, and Gorman took good at bats. It was clear that those 3 were the ones Miller was being a bit more cautious with. Otherwise Miller was mostly in the strike zone on the black with everyone else.
Bitchfest, schmitchfest, nothing to do but tip your hat to a vastly better team and give thanks they are not in the Central Divixion. My goodness, did you see that Miller guy?
To me it’s all about player development.
For many years now our Cards have been great at developing decent players like Edman or Donovan.
But they’re not developing Star players. And they’re obviously not recognizing who they’re future stars are.
Cardinals, to be competitive again, desperately need guys like Winn, Walker, and Scott to become All Star caliber players. Add a Hence, Thompson, Libby, or Hjerpe to the list as well! And, they have to stop trading guys like Gallen, Arozarena, and Garcia.
Player development! Name of the game!
We all know the formula. Be just good enough to get into the playoffs and then hope for a hot streak.
I subscribe to the ‘have to get to end of May’ to get a really good read on a team’s season.
The stark contrast between the Dodgers roster and the Cardinals roster is certainly in full display though…
Of course I want them to play on the same level as the Dodgers and the other big spenders. But you are being naive if you think that’s happening. Go ahead and be frustrated it’s OK with me. But I’m going to wait until they prove they suck against the rest of the league. Until than I’m going to try and enjoy the long awaited season. For the record, their approach this season wasn’t what I would have liked. But until it’s failure is proven, I’m gonna try and enjoy the team I’ve followed for 55 years. Cheers
The vaunted Rays are closer to the bottom with 17 while the Dodgers do it all well. Of course, this is quantity, not quality.
The teams with the most draft picks on Opening Day rosters?@Dodgers (29)@Padres (28)@Cardinals (27)@astros (26)@Twins (26)@CleGuardians (25)@Orioles (24)https://t.co/OyThzZK1NC pic.twitter.com/RzgCe0pair
— Baseball America (@BaseballAmerica) March 30, 2024
These first two games have gone as expected. What figures to be the best team in the league, maybe in all of MLB, against a club without it’s number 1 starter, and starting left and center fielder. No surprise.
Tonight might get embarrassing, although Yamamoto got knocked around in his first start so who knows.
Way to early to tell what this team will look like once we get some 60 games in the books. But I think you had to grab Monty and bring in only one of either Lynn or Gibson to feel good about things. As is it is tough to be optimistic.
However, it does look like Gorman is coming along and could be a star in a couple of years. Walker and Winn are so young they are probably a good 3 years away.
Miller was on the board when the Cardinals chose Walker. Which would we rather have right now?
Good question. Pitchers carry a lot of risk, so who knows. Our club needs a couple guys like that right now, but in 3-4 years things might look a lot different.
“One of Ollie’s innumerable managerial weaknesses is that he does not understand (having never played above A-ball) that the vast, vast majority of major leaguers hit and pitch and field their best when they have defined roles.”
I can’t remember exactly where I read this, but somewhere in an autobiography I read a former player talked about times where lineups are changed a lot and guys get moved around -he said while that happens when teams are dealing with injuries or trying to find their sweet spot, he was always more comfortable with a defined role and position in the batting order. I think Jim Edmonds said that as well on a broadcast one time.
For now this club has some missing pieces. But we also have a manager who is not good. Think about some of our great managers – Billy Southworth, Red Schoendienst, Whitey Herzog, Tony LaRussa. All played at least some, Red to a Hall of Fame level, at the top level of the game and observed a lot of other great managers while there. The only great Cardinal manager who has a background close to Marmol that I can think of is Johnny Keane, but he coached at the big league level before being elevated to manager. And Keane was great at putting the best players in their best position, at a time when there were still societal forces outside of the game that would occasionally put pressure on managers and organizations as to who should play.
George Altman told me once that Keane was the best manager he played for, and one of the biggest disappointments of his career was that he did not do better in his one season here and had been able to stay longer with the club.
But management sees something in Ollie that we don’t and we are stuck with him for awhile. From my amateur view of our club, we are dyslexic. Management thinks we have a competitive club on the field and will not do what it takes to go through a rebuild, yet they have a manager who is learning on the job. He could be pretty good in 3,4 years, but has a ways to go.
I absolutely do not understand the Marmol extension at this time.
I know what ‘the narrative’ is but I’m not buying it. This isn’t college sports where recruiting and the transfer portal are crucial every single year.
Hopefully, if Marmol is not good this year he gets canned like tuna anyway – even with the extension.
ZTR, what do you hope would be gained by replacing Marmol? Based upon what Mo’s recent hires have been, I mean. A different minion, so what. Certainly no one who will challenge ‘the phylosophy’. IMO, the extension establishes that the FO know perfectly well that replacing the manager with another organization drone is not going to change anything.
bccran wrote:
The 9th highest payroll in MLB now is $223.7 million. What’s the answer? Outspend some of the teams above the Cardinals?
Not sure where you got your nunmbers from but according to Cot’s the Cardinals current 40 man payroll is at $178.1M, which ranks 11th.
ZTR points out the reality of the Redbird manager’s contract extension…You can be certain that Billy Jr. is paying him peanuts and that if the whiz-kid continues to be a dismal failure he’ll be placed in the soup line quicker than he can mumble “Rumpelstiltskin.” They’ll simply pay him what he’s owed and tell him to take a walk. The contract extension was simply Johnny’s method of demonstrating that he can still do what he wants.
Hopefully, if Marmol is not good this year he gets canned like tuna anyway – even with the extension.
I hope Marmol is good and proves me and many others wrong. That would be the best outcome. But given his track record so far I am not optimistic.
I’m not a huge fan of Marmol but I think the rush to always blame the manager for a team’s failures is vastly misplaced.
One has to think of the dynamic that could be in place between the manager and the front office. How much autonomy does the manager actually have? It is different for each team.
Personally, I think blame often (but not in every case) lays at higher levels than the manager.
In any event, the second game of the season is a little early for panic. I plan to wait at least a couple of weeks :).
Yeah, it’s like Whitey Herzog said when the Cardinals failed to retain Bruce Sutter after the 1984 season – “I just got 36 games dumber.”
I concur with both marilyn and bling.
Under the Cardinals philosophy blaming the manager for everything makes no sense because the manager controls a lot less than we think they do and if the team does buy out Marmol’s contract (unlikely) they would just replace him with another rookie yes man. Whitey and Tony are not walking through that door again under this ownership and front office.
bicyclemike wrote:
Yeah, it’s like Whitey Herzog said when the Cardinals failed to retain Bruce Sutter after the 1984 season – “I just got 36 games dumber.”
I like Herzog’s quote in his book the White Rat: “The day Bruce Sutter made me a genius, by signing with the Cardinals..”
r/Esteemed Rat
The contract extension was simply Johnny’s method of demonstrating that he can still do what he wants.
Wow, a brilliant observation. I would have bet big money the extension makes no sense at all, but that would be a crafty move by Mo if he felt like he needed to prove the length of his chain.
I don’t buy this “still do what he wants” thought process. Nothing has changed. Mo is still the PBO with the only person he answers to being DeWitt. If the owner wanted Marmol out or kept on a short rope, he wouldn’t have approved the extension. It is no more complicated than that.
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