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  • #152392
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    They are tanking
    They are salary dumping
    They are saving money

    #152393
    AvatarTexasCard
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    It’s a travesty what some of these teams are doing. In the new CBA the MLBPA should insist on a minimum salary cap. This is getting ridiculous what the Pirates are doing.

    #152504
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Is there such a thing as a “Super Tank”?

    #152505
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    The whole NL Central is just saving their money to clobber the free agent market after 2021. Yeah, that’s it.

    #152506
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    CLE has 2.45mil beyond 2021 (in buyouts)

    PIT currently has 18.4mil in arb salaries which won’t finish the arb process in 2021.
    CLE currently has 8.65mil in arb salaries of the same type.

    #152508
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    stlcard25, playing off what you said, here is my prediction about 2022. So many teams will be supposedly targeting that market that the free agent prices will go sky high. As a result, the more conservative teams (like the Cardinals) will lose out on the plums. That is my expectation.

    #152510
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    stlcard25, playing off what you said, here is my prediction about 2022. So many teams will be supposedly targeting that market that the free agent prices will go sky high. As a result, the more conservative teams (like the Cardinals) will lose out on the plums. That is my expectation.

    That’s the smart expectation. I could see the Cards left signing Marcus Semein after next year on an overpay (like a 3 year, $54M deal) rather than spending $27M a year on Story or Correa or $32M a year on Seager or Lindor.

    It’s a terrible way to build a team and if they are doing that, I’d rather they just tear things down and rebuild but it’s the Cardinal Way.

    #152514
    Avatargscottar
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    That might be the case but the Cardinals will be going into the offseason next winter with $49M in obligations, not counting arbitration salaries. If they go into the 2022 season with a payroll of $100M or less they will get torched by the fan base, justifiably so. Remember their payroll in 2020 before covid was $165M. Coming in second place on every major acquisition target won’t cut it next winter.

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by Avatargscottar.
    #152518
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    gscottar, another prediction. They dish out long-term extensions to the next wave of core players instead of spending big in free agency. They will still make the more modest roster-filling additions. Then they can show they spent money.

    I honestly do not think they fully accept the level of fan unrest. And it will not become obvious to them until fans stop filling Busch Stadium. And we already know that 2021 will be another COVID exception, so if this theory is proven correct, they wouldn’t first feel it until at least well into the 2022 season – months after the 2021-2022 free agency period had passed.

    P.S. I hope I am wrong about all of these predictions.

    #152519
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    I can see the article on Redbird Rants now: “Cardinals to extend Jack Flaherty?” with comments that Brian Walton of The Cardinal Nation predicted it would be so. 😂

    #152521
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    …because they can make it so, just by asking… Mo asleep at the switch again! 😉

    #152522
    Avatargscottar
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    gscottar, another prediction. They dish out long-term extensions to the next wave of core players instead of spending big in free agency.

    What young “core” player would be signing an extension next winter? Flaherty? Good luck with that.

    Edit: Conversation moved to payroll/budget thread.

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by Avatargscottar.
    #152550
    Avatarmspaid
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    I think this is Junior’s strategy. He will tank 2021. No gate receipts or very little so who can blame him. Then in the 2021-2022 off season he’ll add some talent and significant talent. Not Arenado or any other BIG names but good players. His gamble is that fans will forgive the suggested stinginess for 2021 and come back to 3.4 million in 2022. It is a strategy that could succeed or fail…obviously. But it’s fun for me to watch junior’s business mind work. He is very smart and also kids, he’s very rich. A fan boycott would not be severe or last very long. Cardinal fans are sheep and he knows it. Junior will always come out a winner. Cardinal fans who want a WS trophy? Well, that’s problematic.

    #153998
    Avatargscottar
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    The tanking Pirates actually added a player. That is shocking, albeit not a major add.

    #154012
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Nate’s 1/27 post two above aged particularly badly. It is actually not that rare for his patented gloom and doom predictions to be proven wrong… but I always give him points for consistency!

    #154032
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    No, Brian I don’t think it aged badly. Now, Arenado was a pleasant surprise and he will certainly help but they need much more than just him. Mo said the heavy lifting is over. That’s the problem every year. They make one move and quit. That won’t get the WS. You can’t take your foot off the accelerator if you expect to get anywhere. So, no, I have never been proven wrong. I’ve predicted failure ever year since the early teens and they haven’t won the WS. I was right all along. Show me a WS trophy then I will be wrong.

    #154038
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Nate, your memory is selective. You predicted failure ahead of 2006 and 2011, as well.

    As I have pointed out many times, when your definition of success is winning the World Series, of course you are going to be “right” more often than not. It also means nothing.

    #154632
    Avatargscottar
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    #154633
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    The Toddfather was the type of mood I felt the Cards would make to block Carp from getting his option vested. Glad Mo aimed higher.

    #154638
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    Brian:

    Touche…you got me. Glad I was wrong about 06 and 11. But yes winning the WS is the only definition of success for me. When I see a team have a parade in their town for losing the WS then I’ll consider my definition for success to be extreme.

    #154967
    bicyclemikebicyclemike
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    If you make success as black and white as winning the World Series being the only acceptable definition of hitting the mark, every major league team fails some 90% of the time, maybe more. The Cards have won 2 in the last 15 years. Boston is probably the leader of the pack with what, 4 maybe, starting in 2004. The Yankees have 1, LA 1, Cubs 1. Those are probably the biggest spenders, and other than Boston they are at about a 5% “success” rate over the last 20 years, Cards are at 10%. Many, many teams are at zero. The Giants got 3 I think, a 15% rate. Before that though you have to go back to New York and 1954.

    That is just an impossible standard to obtain on a consistent basis. I think most people would define success as winning their division on a relatively consistent basis first and foremost – say half the time over a span of some 15-20 years, You might water it down to simply getting to post season. After that, there is so much randomness and breaks that come in to play that winning the World Series is a bit anticlimactic. Of course you want that prize, but to call anything less a failure is not right either.

    My personal definition of success: Consistent winning over a long period of time. Teams that win the World Series here and there often advance to the “Great” category but only if they had a strong regular season. Neither the 2006 or 2011 Cardinal teams were great, but they won the World Series. They were successful. But so were the 2015 bunch. That team was very successful, winning 100 games. Greatness escaped them when they could not get to the World Series.

    Failure is being around .500 or below over an extended period of time, say 10 years or more.

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