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Euro…Yeah, there is. Not too long ago, I read an article in the StL. Post Dispatch that laid out the all the qualifications. It indicated that Edman has enough innings this season at both 2B and SS to qualify for the award at either position. It’d be a shame if he didn’t get another one for this season. I can’t recall him making a bad play at either position all year.
Thinking about OF developments this winter, I notice that Nootbaar (OBP, OPS+) and Dickerson (BA, OPS+) are the two best hitting outfielders whether you are talking BA, OBP or OPS+, and mostly by a rather wide margin over the rest. This is going to be an interesting sub plot.
Two former hype cadets who have moved to the back burner are Carlson and Gorman. I doubt either will be proclaimed the “starting” this or that going into ST. That changes things up since we had it wrote in ink.
Bling…Yeah, when Bader went to the Yankees there were several articles in the local media that quoted both the coaching staff and FO proclaiming that the trade was a strong vote of confidence for Carlson being cemented in as the Redbird CF’er for this season and the future. Things change in a hurry. Regarding Gorman, best I can tell is that he’s displayed similar tendencies with the Cardinal affiliates as he has in the Big Leagues. He goes on a genuine tear for awhile, and then multiple holes emerge in his swing. I’m only going by numbers, but that’s what it looks like with Gorman on a couple of stat websites.
Haha…What am I doing on an OF thread? I wish there was a game thread. Come to think of it, I wish there was a game…
Two former hype cadets who have moved to the back burner are Carlson and Gorman. I doubt either will be proclaimed the “starting” this or that going into ST. That changes things up since we had it wrote in ink.
Perhaps it’s not in ink…but it will be in very dark pencil that those two will be every day players next year. Marmol has been playing the hot hand and next year there will be less competition for at bats, at least early.
Gorman should be very thankful for the DH. I hope he is better at 3rdbase than what he’s shown at 2ndbase. I suppose if Arenado opts out he becomes the everyday 3rdbaseman. Not sure I can handle his 200 strikeouts for the entire season.
Again, are there any free agent outfielders we might be interested in?
If you pull Baders offensive numbers from the outfield production, the outfields offensive numbers improve.
Bader (93) is the only outfielder with an ops+ below 100. No black hole, just solid production with depth.
I would say mediocre, not terrible, but by no means top shelf.
Note: Sorting just the Cardinals by stat from Baseball Reference. For some reason, a few sorts only go 9 deep.
STL Cards Team Rankings
OPS (Only 9 deep)
Nootbaar 4th
Carlson 8th
O’Neill 9thOPS+ (Only 9 deep)
Nootbaar 5th
Carlson 8th
O’Neill 9thOBP (Only 9 deep)
Nootbaar 4th
Carlson 7th
O’Neill 8thThrowing some counting stats in for giggles
Doubles
Carlson 4th
Dickerson 6th
O’Neill 9th
Nootbaar 10thTriple
Carlson 2nd
Nootbaar 3rd
Dickerson 8th
O’Neill 9thHome runs
O’Neill 5th (tie with Gorman)
Nootbaar 7th
Carlson 9th
Dickerson 11thRBI’s
O’Neill 3rd
Carlsom 6th
Nootbaar 8th
Dickerson 10thBAVG (Only 9 deep)
Carlson 6th
O’Neill 8th
Nootbaar 9thCard4ever…You know, O’Neill’s BA at .228 is certainly nothing to boast about, but he’s collected 58 RBI’s in only 325 AB’s. That’s pushing quite a few runs across HP for that many chances.
Just saying there aren’t very many that land in the top 40% of their own team stat-wise. It seems some are trying to say we have a really good outfield and I don’t think the stats back them up. Our outfield is decent, at best.
NL Central Outfielder WAR
WOW the Reds are bad…… And can you imagine the sCrUBS if the had a 3rd outfielder?
Cardinals
1.8
1.7
1.1
0.7
—
5.3Brewers
2.6
2.0
1.7
—
6.3Cubs
3.9
1.5
-0.1
—-
5.3Reds
1.1
0.4
-0.8
—
0.7Pirates
2.1
0.0
0.1
—
2.2Card4ever…Oh, I agree. I think so long as the defensive aspect of the current OF’ers hold up, decent production from the bats will suffice with the way the position player portion of the roster is put together. I mean, the Redbirds undoubtedly have the best corner IF duo in the entire Big Leagues and it quite possible they could end up being one of the best all-time, if they’re not already. Those two guys can counter balance a middle of the road offensive performance in the OF. In any event, I agree with your impression.
Rat, I would think that the most obvious FA outfielder that Mo might pick up this winter is Dickerson.
Last winter Mo picked up Dickerson to hit vs RHP and it has worked out well for 2nd-3rd year arb type money and no long term commitment. He was probably envisioned as a platoon counterpoint to Albert in the DH role, but has emerged as very useful to replace the youngster Carlson who stumbled badly vs righties.
We will be relying upon young guys again next year, and it seems like Mo would be on the lookout for a comparable situational guy this winter, as prior history of success vs MLB pitching is a good fall back position if younger unproven players stumble. We have seen, both last year and this, that having more young guys to bring in and try does not always answer.
Losing Puhols and with Donovan, Gorman, Yepez, Nootbar and Burlson all hitting better against RH pitching Mo needs tô find a RH hitting version of Dickerson who can also play some OF. Dickerson hás been good but not sure he is what we need going in tô 2023.
You can add Edman tô the list of those who hit worse against LH pitching. Then you have Dejong that cant hit any pitchers.
Good point on the splits CC. If they do move on from PDJ, a middle infielder good vs lefties would fit well with Gorman and Edman, who are best vs righties.
OF batting averages this season so far –
Carlson – .240
O’Neill – .228
Nootbaar – .223
Dickerson – .293One guy who puts the ball in play consistently. BA isn’t the end all by itself, but it’s an important factor.
Jager really likes the guy and with CC’s note that some of the OF candidates are better against RHP (I don’t agree with Edman but O’Neill traditionally has been so it’s sort of a wash) I wouldn’t mind kicking the tires on Mitch Haniger for next year. He’s a bounce back candidate who may be fairly cheap. He also has a good career line vs lefties. Then again I bet Jordan Walker could hit lefties well too even as a rookie.
With O’Neill, Carlson, Nootbaar, possibly Dickerson, Yepez, Burleson, Gomez, and Walker I doubt if the Cards will wade into the FA market beyond Dickerson. Especially with guys who are looking for multiple years.
Not sure what the basis is for determining that Edman has less success vs. LHP’ing. He’s always been a better hitter when facing a LHP’er.
What will really be interesting to watch is who will rise to the occasion. Will O’Neill return to the player he was in 2021? Will Carlson mature into an All Star caliber player as some expect? Is Nootbaar a starter or #4? Will Yepez and Burleson be platoon dynamos at DH? Is Gomez for real? Will Walker measure up to his hype? Will they re-sign Dickerson for a year or two?
Edman’s OPS splits:
2022 vs LHP: .816
vs RHP:.715Career vs. LHP: .843
vs. RHP: .704It isn’t even close.
Again, are there any free agent outfielders we might be interested in?
I would say no. I suppose they could bring Dickerson back but I am not sure it makes sense to pay him between $5-$10M when we have so many options who will make less than that.
O’Neill
Carlson
Donovan
Nootbaar
Yepez
Burleson
Walker
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