Outfield Situation

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  • #200203
    jj-cf-stl
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    JJ sighting! Thanks for that!

    Musical and Slaughter on the corners was pretty special too.

    #200204
    jj-cf-stl
    Participant

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    I should have known Mike would beat me to the punch.

    #200216
    bccran
    Participant

    Substandard outfield by Cardinal historical standards.

    #200219
    mudville
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    I’m thinking that next season, with the shift banned, most player’s offensive stats will change, maybe dramatically. Front offices will have to try to project what the change will be for each player in order to have an idea of what they really have. It might be best to go with what we have for next season before making moves to upgrade our offense.

    #200229
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

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    bccran asserted:

    Substandard outfield by Cardinal historical standards.

    No. The only data shown so far is anecdotal comparisons to a few of the greatest OFs in team history. No one had suggested the 2022 OF is among the best ever.

    The initial suggestion was that the 2022 OF is among the worst in MLB. That was disproven.

    So, the goal posts moved… And I don’t have time to pull the data to refute/verify your newest claim…

    #200242
    gscottar
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    Oli has O’Neill, Carlson and Noot in the OF, with PDJ, Edman and Gorman up the middle and Donovan as the DH.

    Oil’s way has the most flexibility. He can rest anyone but the catcher at DH, and just plug in Donovan at their position. If someone is dinged up, but not IL, same scenario, plug in Donovan. It’s the least disruptive way to manage the position players since Edman is needed full time on the middle infield.

    That works for this year but next year I am assuming that Yepez and Burleson will need to get in the lineup somewhere.

    #200243
    gscottar
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    Well it would depend on what managements expectations are next year. If they don’t win it all this year but feel they are close, another year of hoping O’Neil or Carlson come around may not be in the cards. I could see Dickerson back if he finishes out strong

    The Cardinals will have to do a cost/benefit analysis on Dickerson. This year he is making $5M. What kind of salary will he want next year coming off of a strong second half? Would one year $7M be enough? If so, do you pay him that or figure you can get similar production out of Yepez and Burleson for $700k each?

    #200247
    bccran
    Participant

    Okay, I’ll rephrase. The Cardinals OF is one of the worst hitting outfields of all upper echelon major league teams.

    #200249
    stlcard25
    Participant

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    Playoff teams if the season ended today ahead of St Louis in OF wRC+:

    Mets
    Yankees
    Astros
    Dodgers
    Mariners

    St Louis is 6th in the majors.

    After the Cards among playoff teams:

    Toronto
    Tampa Bay
    Atlanta
    Philadelphia
    San Diego
    Cleveland

    So, they are 6th of 12 playoff bound teams in offense from the outfield. Is that “one of the worst?”

    #200251
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

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    “What I meant was…”

    #200253
    bccran
    Participant

    It just means there must be a low standard, 25. Here are some more numbers –

    Bader – gone

    Carlson in August, before being “DLed” in early September – .217/.313/.337/.650

    O’Neill in August – .215/.315/.462/.777 (skewed by HR)

    Nootbaar in September – .071/.182/.179/.360

    Yepez in July – .149/.196/.277/.473 (before going down)

    Dickerson –
    Aug. – .411/.411/.589/1.000

    The numbers are skewed because they include –

    Good months for May and June by Yepez
    Bader’s good months
    Nootbaar’s crazy good August
    Carlson’s decent months before slumping badly
    Edman’s games in the outfield
    Dickerson with off the charts good months in August and September so far.

    #200258
    CariocaCardinal
    Participant

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    Só skewing with bad months is ok, skewing with good month is not?

    There may be a low standard but if the population of OF available is bad what should they do?

    #200261
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    They should have brought up Burleson sooner, of course! 😉

    #200266
    bccran
    Participant

    Not a bad idea, Brian. Of course you and several other posters said he wouldn’t come up in September. That Yepez would, but Burleson wouldn’t. That he wouldn’t because he wasn’t on the 40 man. Remember?

    #200267
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    I bet you predicted Carlson would get hurt, too. You are truly amazing!

    #200268
    Oliver
    Participant

    Free

    So far no strikeouts for Burleson.

    #200269
    jj-cf-stl
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    Just for accuracies sake, Edman has no outfield starts in 2022.

    #200271
    bccran
    Participant

    JJ – For the record, Baseball Reference says differently.

    Brian – Instead of backlashing with a ridiculous statement, why don’t you just admit you were wrong about Yepez being called up before Burleson and that Burleson wouldn’t be called up because he wasn’t on the 40 man. A little crow never hurt anybody. None of us are right all the time.

    #200275
    jj-cf-stl
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Edman has no outfield starts in 2022.

    He does have 3 outfield PA’s when shifted from his starting lineup position.

    You are probably remembering 2021.

    #200277
    1toughdominican
    Participant

    Free

    I didn’t look it up, but I seem to recall Eddie getting quite a few innings in the OF in his first season of ’19 as well. Anyone recall if he’s ever been placed in CF as a Cardinal?

    #200278
    Euro Dandy
    Participant

    Free

    Edman had 1 inning in CF in 2019 and 5 innings in CF this year.

    His total outfield innings by year are as follows:

    2019: 82.2
    2020: 128.1
    2021: 284.1
    2022: 8

    #200279
    bccran
    Participant

    Are Bader’s offensive numbers being factored into the 2022 OF offensive production? If so, they should be backed out.

    #200281
    bicyclemike
    Moderator

    Paid - Annual

    The common sense, and accurate thing to say is the Cardinals outfield has had average, or mediocre of you prefer, production in 2022. Defense has been real good though, as the club’s offense has been largely carried by infielders.

    The potential is there for improvement, possibly big improvement if Yepez, Carlson, O’Neill and possibly Burleson are contributing in 2023 at their potential. Noot might have a say in that as well.

    #200282
    Euro Dandy
    Participant

    Free

    Not an outfield issue, but since Edman was brought into this it got me thinking it will be tough for him to win another gold glove with the spread of his innings by infield position.

    In 2021 he had 1,032.1 innings at 2B and 26 at SS.

    In 2022 he has 566.2 innings at 2B, 532 at SS, and 26 at 3B.

    I wonder if there is a minimum inning number for a specific position to be eligible? I recall they did away with specific positions for outfield gold glove awards.

    #200283
    bccran
    Participant

    Excellent post, Bike Mike.

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