Matt Carpenter

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  • #99863
    Minuteman3
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    <Actually Carp went 0-4 tonight, bringing his rehab ‘effort’ to a 0-for-20 with 7 strikeouts>

    The box score shows him 0-3 with one SO and one walk so I guess you are counting the walk but he has survived in the bigs by being a milkman milking for those walks anytime he gets two balls. Pitchers are now well aware of that and can safely throw strikes pretty much down the middle as he watches them go by. In my mind, Carp was ruined by the launch angle nonsense which he has never mastered but which has led to his downfall. Learning to hit to the opposite field would have saved him a lot of grief and eliminated the shift allowing him some decent hits to RF. JMHO.

    #99866
    PadsFS
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    Onyxgem

    Just goes to show the FO decision to resign him before the season was BEYOND stupid…something they are really good at being lately!

    It’s really frustrating that they’ve given extensions out to Carpenter and Molina when they had options remaining as well. Those options were the best parts of both players’ previous contracts and the front office ripped them up and handicapped themselves into over-paying for the decline years. Most likely, we could have still re-signed either player, if needed, just like with the Wainwright contract.

    I’m glad Carpenter is doing his struggling in the minors though. I think he will figure it out soon and all this talk is moot.

    #99879
    Minuteman3
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    <Just goes to show the FO decision to resign him before the season was BEYOND stupid…something they are really good at being lately!>

    Don’t you think that is a case of 20/20 hindsight on your part. Even I who is not a Matt Carpenter fan would NOT call it stupid based on his 2018 season. In fact a lot of the criticisms on the forum are based on hindsight with only a few attaboys ever seen. I will give them an attaboy on Goldschmidt despite his not getting a good start until recently. He will definitely pay off in the long run. And I think they should extend Ozuna too – that should get some good shots my way…..LOL

    #99886
    thejager
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    IMO he should just be bunting to 3b every AB…until they dont shift, then swing away

    if he became competent enough to do that every…single…time he would get all his space to the right side back and he woudlnt have to make all sorts of changes…

    i know it isnt easy or fun or get you on ESPN (if that is a thing anymore)…but someone needs to remind him he is NOT a middle of the order bat…he is the LEADOFF man…and he needs to get on base…

    learn to bunt to 3b Carp…every single time….they will stop shifting after a couple games of it…then he can use all the skill he had to hit over there which caused the shift in the first place

    i know bunting is hard…i know it doesnt happen overnight… but he isnt starting from zero AND he has 20 days of rehab to do focus on it…

    i dont think he realizes how close he is to becoming Allen Craig….a guy who was awesome and we all loved and then fell off the map so much that people paid him to play in the minors or just release him despite his past greatness

    There is a roadmap for him to success, it isnt fun or grandiose, but if he did it all those hitting lanes would open up again….

    something has to change…or he wont play again…. if it was me id at least TRY to bunt better to keep my career going…

    #99887
    Onyxgem
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    <Don’t you think that is a case of 20/20 hindsight on your part. Even I who is not a Matt Carpenter fan would NOT call it stupid based on his 2018 season. In fact a lot of the criticisms on the forum are based on hindsight with only a few attaboys ever seen. I will give them an attaboy on Goldschmidt despite his not getting a good start until recently. He will definitely pay off in the long run. And I think they should extend Ozuna too – that should get some good shots my way…..LOL>

    Not at all when they did the extension it said it was beyond stupid. Carp had similar issues last year to.

    #99889
    thejager
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    Carp had similar problems they ear before last too

    also Goldy did last year too

    #99892
    colhusker
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    IMO he should just be bunting to 3b every AB…until they dont shift, then swing away

    if he became competent enough to do that every…single…time he would get all his space to the right side back and he woudlnt have to make all sorts of changes…

    i know it isnt easy or fun or get you on ESPN (if that is a thing anymore)…but someone needs to remind him he is NOT a middle of the order bat…he is the LEADOFF man…and he needs to get on base…

    learn to bunt to 3b Carp…every single time….they will stop shifting after a couple games of it…then he can use all the skill he had to hit over there which caused the shift in the first place

    i know bunting is hard…i know it doesnt happen overnight… but he isnt starting from zero AND he has 20 days of rehab to do focus on it…

    i dont think he realizes how close he is to becoming Allen Craig….a guy who was awesome and we all loved and then fell off the map so much that people paid him to play in the minors or just release him despite his past greatness

    There is a roadmap for him to success, it isnt fun or grandiose, but if he did it all those hitting lanes would open up again….

    something has to change…or he wont play again…. if it was me id at least TRY to bunt better to keep my career going…

    This is spot on.

    #99894
    gscottar
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    Did you know that Major League players do not have to go on rehab assignments? How about at least giving Carpenter credit for going down to the minors to try to get his bat going? It isn’t going well yet, but he also isn’t back up yet. Seems like some are not sympathetic to his struggles. If so, that is too bad.

    He is still being paid right?

    I think he is still owed around $40M. I am sorry for his struggles but most people will have a difficult time feeling sorry for someone in that situation.

    #99902
    14NyquisT
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    Its not so much sympathy as it is loyalty. Which Carp has earned.

    #99904
    gscottar
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    Its not so much sympathy as it is loyalty. Which Carp has earned.

    I can understand that to a degree. He has been a great Cardinal and he deserves respect, however, this is a business and we are tied for first place with our arch nemesis with two months to go. Our fan base also deserves some respect by going with the players who are producing.

    #99906
    stlcard25
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    Are these guys really producing, or are we looking with rose colored glasses at the team because Goldy, Dejong and O’Neill have carried the offense at different times since the break?

    Edman has a .261/.299/.441 line for a 92 wRC+ (Carp is at 86 wRC+)

    Munoz has a .280/.301/.394 line for a 82 wRC+

    Edman plays better defense and runs better for sure than Carp, and Munoz might be a wash. But with OBPs around .300 and below average offense, it’s not like we are suffering that greatly by giving the incumbent his job back.

    That said, I am with the crowd that hopes Carp stays down in the minors until he gets his swing right. When he does, he should go back to starting. Edman can fill in for he, Dejong and Wong. Munoz becomes the super utility and pinch hit guy.

    #99907
    14NyquisT
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    The heavens would have to open to get Carp into his ’18 run. If he can hit at a marginal level ala Fowler he’ll get his job back.

    #99909
    Minuteman3
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    <That said, I am with the crowd that hopes Carp stays down in the minors until he gets his swing right. When he does, he should go back to starting.>

    How low does he have to go before he ‘gets his swing right’? So far he has tried AAA and AA. Would A be his best bet and when he finally finds the level where he can hit then he should go back to starting in MLB? You can only have so much loyalty. This is a performance oriented business. People post on all forums everyday about how to win, win, win not how to treat all your players with loyalty. I favor loyalty when justified by performance and, at the moment, Carp is not performing.

    #99910
    14NyquisT
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    Min3… any thoughts on Fowler’s season last year?

    #99911
    stlcard25
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    How low does he have to go before he ‘gets his swing right’? So far he has tried AAA and AA. Would A be his best bet and when he finally finds the level where he can hit then he should go back to starting in MLB? You can only have so much loyalty. This is a performance oriented business. People post on all forums everyday about how to win, win, win not how to treat all your players with loyalty. I favor loyalty when justified by performance and, at the moment, Carp is not performing.

    I’m not suggesting he go any lower than he is. It’s not about finding a place with pitchers bad enough to help him hit again; it’s about him finding the swing that made him one of the better hitters in MLB for over a half decade. That can be done anywhere and I’m sure the Cards will be monitoring it. As of now, we have two OK replacements to help fill the void but Carp at his normal (even reduced a bit due to age, say 15-20% above league average) level helps this team gain an edge on the Cubs, Brewers, Phillies and Nats.

    #99929
    Minuteman3
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    <Min3… any thoughts on Fowler’s season last year?>

    Yep, I thought he stunk the place up and, actually, things seemed to improve when he went down with the foot injury but he was not working on an extension. He had a contract that was a risk and the risk was not paying off. Same for Cecil who is about the stealthiest pitcher in the Cards system at the present. Fowler has improved to near what was expected of him but Bader’s arrival was what helped us overcome Fowler’s shortcomings. Note that I am not a stat guy at all and cannot even tell what a lot of the metrics stuff is so all I have to go by is the eyeball. Anybody can quote sabrestuff to me all day and all they will get is a blank stare. I am still trying to figure out how a WAR is proven.

    #99930
    BlackHillsCard
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    it’s about him finding the swing that made him one of the better hitters in MLB for over a half decade.

    What if, and hear me out on this and I also have nothing extensively to support this, but what if Carp just isn’t that good any more? We’ve all seen players fall off a cliff and never get it back, what if that’s happened to Carp?

    #99933
    SoonerinNC
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    It appears that Munoz has a much stronger arm and more speed that Carpenter. I think his best defensive position is right field. The thing I like most about him is his competitiveness. He gets a lot of important hits late in the game and a lot off 2 strike counts.

    #99934
    stlcard25
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    What if, and hear me out on this and I also have nothing extensively to support this, but what if Carp just isn’t that good any more? We’ve all seen players fall off a cliff and never get it back, what if that’s happened to Carp?

    It’s possible that he is. Typically those things happen in conjunction with injuries, which could be at play here too. I just don’t think it’s something we could definitively say is the case right at this moment.

    #99936
    Brian Walton
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    It also could be a mental issue. Many people here scoff at the possibility, but mental health can be a big issue with ballplayers as much as a butcher or a bank president. As TLR was fond of saying, “They are men, not machines.”

    As noted, this is all baseless speculation with regard to Carpenter specifically.

    #99938
    bicyclemike
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    For the Cardinals to successfully finish this thing off they will need a reasonably normal production from Matt Carpenter. Edman has had some moments, but he likely won’t bring what Carp brings when Carp is on his game.

    This would have been a great opportunity for Gyorko to step up, and be probably could have carried the torch at third but he too is banged up.

    Carp will be given a shot, there is no doubt in that. Hopefully he can salvage the season and get on base at a .375 clip or so, with an occasional ebh here and there.

    He simply has to put the ball in play more though, and the opportunity is always there for him to shorten up his swing and go the other way. If he is not doing that on the rehab assignment, then he is doing it the hard way.

    #99939
    wildwill11
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    In my initial comments about Matt Carpenter, I fully expected many to voice their support of him. What astounded me is just the magnitude of those disillusioned by the front office hype put out about him over the years. One actually compared his quality to Joey Votto. Votto is a life time 300 hitter and a possible hall of fame candidate. Carpenter a 270 life time hitter has absolutely ZERO CHANCE of being voted into the Hall of Fame. I also heard the comment about returning to “one of the best NL Hitters. Again Really? 270 does not get you into that class. Last year for a couple months he was certainly in that conversation due to his Home Run Surge. However, if you look at his home run statistics over his career this was a fluke and not something anyone could reasonably expect to continue (15.8 avg). Does anyone out there really think we could get any value for him in a trade???? We would most likely have to pick up a large portion of his salary just to unload the guy. The facts are simple – He is a solid average MLB hitter. He is a below average fielder. He is a below average base runner. He gets a lot of walks. He strikes out a lot. His best season as a Cardinal was his first two full seasons (.294 and .318). Since 2013 he has steadily declined.

    #99941
    bicyclemike
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    PS – if I am Carp, every pitch that is on the outside I swing inside-out. Every pitch middle-in I jump on and pull.

    Easier said than done as you then have to deal with breaking balls or fast balls and all that. But your approach has to be go with the pitch. He tends to want to pull everything, and has gotten into bad habits by pulling that shoulder out too soon and pulling off the ball, so the pitches on the outer half kill him, and those down and in are mostly unhittable.

    #99943
    Brian Walton
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    Wildwill, welcome. Here, we don’t start new topics every time we want to talk about a player. If we did, we would have hundreds of threads of duplication.

    There is already another Matt Carpenter thread right below this one, which was also started by you! I am merging your post into that existing discussion. I am sure you will get feedback there. Thanks.

    #99948
    forsch31
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    Wildwill, Carpenter underwent a swing transformation after a couple of years in the league. This changed his profile from a contact hitter to a power hitter. That has really affected his career numbers. When you break it down by time frames, it becomes clear that he has been one of the best hitters in the NL.

    Average year from 2012-2015:
    .289/.376/.455/.831 with 13 HR, 38 2B, 4 3B, 70 BB, 106 Ks

    Average year from 2015-2018:
    .260/.376/.497/.873 with 27 HR, 38 2B, 3 3B, 93 BB, 136 Ks

    He started sacrificing average for home runs and more walks. He also started striking out more often. I feel he would be best served to go back to hitting to all fields and being a contact hitter. Stop looking for a walk or swinging for a home run.

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