- This topic has 229 replies, 21 voices, and was last updated 9 months, 4 weeks ago by
.
-
Posts
-
sign either one of the Kyle’s – Tucker or Schwarber
– sign Dylan CeaseBDW didn’t hire Bloom to sign big money players. BDW must be tired and fed up with having to hire starters and moto bats. The pipeline will have to start pinching them off, and until then the roster will be skinny. Skinny, but hopefully less dysfunctional.
I dont think showalter is the answer. It doesnt have to be some old guy. We have a front office that should have the talent to find someone with the qualities im talking about. You find the best available and pay them like they are tbe best available. Also give them the backing of the organization. None of these antics like with shildt.
How many had even heard of Pat Murphy before two years ago? How many have even heard of him now? He happens to be the manager of the team with the best record in baseball. You don’t have to have a big name manager to win but you do have to have a front office capable of putting together a good roster and minor league feeder system.
And if you guys think the Cardinals are going to sign someone like Tucker or Schwarber I am going to start thinking you have been partaking of that substance made famous by Willie Nelson.
Murphy inherited a very good team that Counsel managed to 1st or 2nd place finishes in 5 out of 6 previous seasons. The Cardinal manager inherited a good team and won the NLC in ’22 with the NL MVP and 3 future HOF’ers on his roster. Since then he’s demonstrated how quickly a horrible field manager can relegate a franchise to second division status. The Cardinals are among the dregs of the NL.
Everyone is entrenched in their stances on Marmol. Some think he is the worst manager in the history of the game. Some think he has done ok given what he had to work with.
As I have said many times I don’t think he is a top notch manager nor do I think he is bad as some folks portray him to be. I just think that the success of a professional baseball team has more to do with the suits upstairs who set the budget, set the roster, build the farm system, make the trades, and highly encourage what the lineup is. Modern managers are severely neutered and controlled compared to their predecessors so comparing a modern manager to Whitey Herzog’s era is difficult because the game has changed a lot since then.
Do I think someone like Schumaker or Shildt or Francona would have gotten more out of this team? Yes probably so but let’s not kid ourselves this roster was only capable of going so far and they got zero support from ownership and the front office.
He’s not deserving of worst in the history of the game, but my best guess is that his legacy will be the worst Cardinal manager ever.
I think Marmol is a below average manager struggling to make a silk purse out of a wheelbarrow full of sows’ ears.
Hochman: I still think Oli Marmol is the guy. Here's why. https://t.co/Vw596Yw28d
— STL Pinch Hits (@STLPinchHits) September 14, 2025
I dont exactly think marmol is horrible far as the onfield guy. I just think he is illsuited to be the leader in the clubhouse. With all thid smoke going on behind the scenes, theres something going on. This doesnt happen generallly with good leadership. Ownership either doesnt have the money or isnt going to spend the money to bring enough outside talent in. So with that a given, other options have to be used unless they are fine with fielding a mostly average to below average team. You can do better in the minors, you can change some positions in front office but none of that matters without better leadership in the clubhouse and that comes from the manager or head coach however you want to call his position. If marmol stays, goes out and wins the final play in spot next year, that will satisfy some people but not me. I expect more from this organization. Im not blaming the players,they are giving their best. Its the people above them that are failing. Maybe the new guy will change stuff, we will see what ownership chooses to give him and what he does very shortly.
He’s not deserving of worst in the history of the game, but my best guess is that his legacy will be the worst Cardinal manager ever.
Worse than Vern Rapp? Surely not.
I read that Ben Hochman article earlier today (Brian has it posted above). He basically cites the Cardinals outperforming their Pythagorean Win Record as the main reason Marmol has done an ok job. He also cites Marmol’s “masterful understanding of baseball and people.” The author goes onto say that he has no idea what Bloom will do and that maybe he will want his own guy. None of us really know what Bloom will do. He has intentionally stayed in the background out of deference to Mo which was probably wise. It will be interesting to see what he has to say once he gets in front of the mic.
I have been thinking more about the Cardinal fan base and attendance issue this year. Bling mentioned a couple of weeks ago that the Cardinal fan base would be tolerant of a rebuild and would support the team if they knew what the plan was and had faith in the front office to execute the plan. I think part of that is true but I am not sure about the other part.
The Cardinals actually have a plan even if they have done a poor job of communicating it. Brian is fond of saying if you want to know what the Cardinals are thinking then follow their actions instead of their words. So what have their actions been the last 12 months?
1. Signed one big league free agent for $2M.
2. Inquired about trading Gray.
3. Inquired about trading Contreras.
4. Tried to trade Arenado a couple of times.
5. Let Goldy and Kitty walk.
6. Did trade Helsley.
7. Did trade Matz.
8. Did trade Maton.
9. DFA’d and traded Fedde.
10. Invested in minor league facilites, minor league instructors, and minor league front office staff.I think their plan is quite evident. They are rebuilding. The fan base doesn’t like it.
The part I think is true is that the fan base is exhausted and tired of Mo. He has been in charge for 17 years and folks are tired of his act and want a fresh voice, which they are about to get.
Will Bloom have a long honeymoon? I suspect he will be given the benefit of the doubt this winter (unless he retains Marmol) but when the games start next season and if there isn’t improvement on the w-l record then the honeymoon will be over. I don’t think I am breaking any news when I say that the fans will return to the stadium when the Cardinals start winning again.
Bloom? He’s the new kid. What about the one they call Girsch? He may be the genuine fearless leader. Never underestimate a man with pretty hair…
Yeah, unfortunately for Bloom the fans are already raw and out of patience.
If Bloom doesn’t or isn’t allowed to make a couple of ‘splash’ moves then there will be a lot of grumbling about nothing changing.
Even if does make a couple of notable moves – if they don’t work out as in, playoffs next year then he’ll get hammered by some.
It won’t be particularly fair to Bloom but life isn’t and the team has stunk a lot more than it hasn’t for a solid decade.
I don’t expect anything much until 2027 – assuming baseball is played that year and I don’t expect to contend for a WS slot until 2028. That is IF Bloom is good and BDW gives him the resources he needs to be good.
To be honest, i dont think fans will have a problem with bloom. Its always ownership. The cardinals were chasing a wild card for a large part of this year, wasnt til recent that they played themselves out of it basically. If ownership is still pulling the same shenigans i dont see people flocking back even if they are somewhat improved. On top of that there are economic factors. Fans are smarter than some think. I do think there may be some excitement due to the change early on and if they are successful early, things could improve on that front. The offseason could determine how much excitement. I dont think anyone is expecting them to spend lots of money but some smart decisions could generate some excitement.
You find the best available
The Cardinals are not likely to be the only team looking for the best available this winter. The top guys are likely to have options besides the Cardinals, and there is the issue of whether they would choose to come here.
I doubt that Bloom would have hung around for two years if he didn’t have a plan and owneship had bought in to it. When Luhnow went to Houston I believe he had a plan and the owner agreed to suport it.
I am not an Ollie supporter and I suspect that Bloom would want his own guy.
I don’t expect an all out rebuild. Our base is currently mostly young players.
I hope to see changes in major leage scouting, international and Ollie being replaced.
I recently listened to the Giant broadcasters when they were in town and they were very critical of the way top officials had handled. The team.
DeWitt has to agree to changes. Those empty seats are alarming and while many of them are probably season ticket holders they will eventually just be empty seats if changes aren’t made beyond just the fringe stuff.
I suspect that the people Bloom has brought in have a pretty good feeling about which players are going to continue to improve and which can be more valuable in trades to teams that believe they can improve those Bloom and his team have lost confidence in. Walker and Gorman are good examples. Other teams may feel that there is a lot of uside there while Bloom and his guys may not see much upside.
I guess part of the problem is semantic. What does “rebuilding” mean?
When most folks hear that word I think they envision creating something new and better.
I don’t think they envision tearing something down then fishing around in the leftovers bin looking for some useable material.
A new coat of paint on the same shaky structure is just that.For the record, the Cardinals (Mozeliak) never accepted “rebuilding” as the definition of their strategy. Instead, they called it a “strategic reset”, apparently hoping that slick wording would fool some people.
But there is a substance difference in the two terms. At the major league level, the reset was more about letting expensive veterans go and trying to improve with the young players they already had. A true rebuild would have been much more encompassing in terms of roster turnover. No-trade protection they provided to multiple veterans hamstrung them from trying to rebuild.
For 2025, they hoped to thread the needle and be competitive while “resetting”, but the result did not totally satisfy either objective. The messaging might have worked three years ago, but as they remain in the mediocre middle, fans have caught on.
On Bloom, he may want his own manager, but would DeWitt eat a year of salaries for the manager and likely many of his staff? Why do that while they are losing money and it is generally accepted that the 2026 roster is unlikely to be considerably more competitive than the 2025 version?
I wonder if some folks are blurring the line between what they WANT the Cardinals to do and what the Cardinals probably WILL (or in this case, will not) do.
Changing the manager is much easier than doing what really needs to be done. The messaging in recent years has been that ownership believes the team is better than it has been playing. If after the last three years, you still believe that, then I completely understand why you want a new manager. I just don’t agree with you.
I think the only hope for a 2026 coaching turnover would be if the Cardinals thought it would get more fans back to Busch Stadium. However, as several have already said on this thread, playing winning baseball is the only solution, not having a different support staff. Fans neither come to games nor stay away based on the identity of the manager. They come to see stars play exciting baseball. To get there, they need a better core of players.
If Bloom is smart (and I know he is), he will not overpromise at the start, but be realistic and frank about where they are now and ask for patience to work his plan. He has a five-year contract.
With what is going to be a young team for the foreseeable future, the ML staff is really an extension of the PD staff. We just have no way to know how Bloom sees Marmol and his guys fitting that role in Bloom’s system. My guess is that others would be a better fit, but that doesn’t mean Bloom won’t just roll through the stop sign and keep on going. Sort of doing what needs to be done, but not really. Retaining the coaching staff would feel like extending the lame duck year for another year. That coupled with what will probably be another 500ish team would just be too much for the BFIB to tolerate, IMO.
Let’s stay with that scenario – that they change the coaches because they want do SOMETHING. How many more season tickets would they sell with a new staff?
Then what happens when the same players and the new coaches deliver the same results? That appearance over substance honeymoon wouldn’t last long, IMO.
It all gets down to how many wins you think a new staff would deliver over the current one. Let’s be very aggressive and guess 4-5 wins improvement. That would make them a .500 club and not be enough to bring the fans back.
On this latter point, we agree. A .500-ish team would not be good enough. But that is likely where they are going to be for a while, no matter who is on the top step of the dugout.
I’ve seen a lot of stories about the Brewers culture over the last year.
How does everyone think Marmol would do in their “check game”?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.