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Bill has to turn the attendance dive around. That means the fans have to buy in to whatever narrative rolls out this winter. It will be harder to get fans to buy in if Marmol stays. It will be easier if he goes. They can’t just say, well, player development is ship shape, there are a couple new guys in the pen, and a couple new complementary pieces, so come on back!
Like it or not, a managerial change has always been the foremost indication that ownership of a baseball franchise can send to it’s fanbase that an genuine effort is being made to improve the fortunes of the team. It’s simply the way it works. Whether or not the team’s lack of success is the fault of the manager, he’s going to get the blame. Same as it ever was.
It’s not that Marmol is such a terrible manager, though perhaps he is, it’s just that there must be better ones out there and resetting the team should start at the top not with tinkering.
Some names for those who want to speculate.
MLB fired managers hoping for triumphant returns after summer of reflection with rash of job openings expected this winter https://t.co/no7yyxLrje
— Bob Nightengale (@BNightengale) September 8, 2025
Skip Schumaker is also still kicking around out there isn’t he?
If the Cards get a new manager they need to get one with some real chops – not a ‘good dude’ with a ‘high baseball IQ’. I also don’t think they should hire from within. Molina or Puhols? Maybe as staff but not right to the top step of the dugout…
Michael Jordan was arguably the greatest basketball player ever but he was a lousy coach. He probably could not understand why his player couldn’t just go beat the other guys.
Bloom is going to have to do some convincing to get the ownership to go outside the box for the next manager. My guess is it’ll be someone on the current staff who has played for the team or Skip. They like familiarity.
Marmol is coming back next season. Just deal with it! He comes cheap. It’ll take a complete tank to get rid of him. Not 72-73 and 4 games out of a WC Spot.
Bill has to turn the attendance dive around.
So this new hire would just be for marketing and PR reasons? If we give this new savior a AAAA roster I would expect similar results to what we have now. Surely the BFIB would be able to sniff that one out.
The Cubs played it right in the early 2010’s. They let the scrub manager run the team during the rebuild then brought in the big dog when they were ready to win. I don’t think the Cardinals are ready to win yet.
BDW III says we are better than we are playing. How’s that for dilusional?
Ownership continues to overvalue their product, intentionally, while slashing funds. More of the same from Juniors junior. Lie if you have to, but sell those tickets!
I agree that the Cards will probably keep Marmol around until they feel they have it queued up to really win big.
The Cubs example is a good one.
They have all the complimentary pieces a team could want now they use need 4-5 stars to fillon around, lol. Now, that’s the trick isn’t it?
JJ: “BDW III says we are better than we are playing. How’s that for dilusional?”
Reminds me of the old saying: “Wagner’s music isn’t as bad as it sounds.”
JJ: “BDW III says we are better than we are playing. How’s that for dilusional?”
It’s easy to get a good idea if a club really is better than they are playing, or to put it another way, better than their record indicates. Just look at the pythagorean, or expected record based on runs scored and runs allowed.
In looking at that, we are a -42 in run differential, which equates to an expected record of 68-77. That is 4 games below our actual record of 72-73.
Thus if anything, we are probably worse than we are playing.
As I’ve said, I’d like to see what Marmol can do with an actual major league roster but I won’t throw a fit if they replace him as long as it is someone who has won titles at the ML level.
I do not care to see another life-long Cardinal internal hire nor even Skip Schumaker. What’s he done other than get canned by Miami.
If you get rid of Mo you don’t want it to still smell like Mo. You have to get rid of the Mo smell. Marmol is a Mo smelling guy.
Getting rid of Marmol isn’t going to get rid of fan discontent. It isn’t going to move the needle to get those fans who travel and hour to two hours away from coming back. I’ll give you 2 guess that will though and one of those isn’t happening and has pretty much put the team and Oli in the situation the team is in the last 2 seasons. They go hand in hand really for most of the top teams.
In looking at that, we are a -42 in run differential, which equates to an expected record of 68-77. That is 4 games below our actual record of 72-73.
Thus if anything, we are probably worse than we are playing.
That was the narrative last season as well. Yet we still ended up with the same record as the Cubs. Who had more talent.
The Ricketts have basically taken a page out of the old Cardinals ownerships playbook. Spend enough to win the Central and trade for something you need, compete and keep the turnstiles rolling. The Ricketts operate it to win but as a business. Right now they and the team are sort of clicking. Our ownership and team are sort of not but that is sort of our own undoing.
The Cubs have gotten a bit of that Cardinal luck as well with PCA having a good season and Micheal Busch basically falling in their laps due to a dodgers 40 man-position crunch last year. Kyle Tucker they know they needed a bat to hedge their bets and they can part ways at seasons end.
If you get rid of Mo you don’t want it to still smell like Mo. You have to get rid of the Mo smell. Marmol is a Mo smelling guy.
I am fine with that as long as we are ready to have a big league roster. Otherwise the results are going to continue to be smelly. It probably makes more sense to bring in the big dog when we are ready to contend.
I think the reds are a clear example of what a good manager can do even if its not a great roster with a proven manage they went 77-85 last year. Already have 74 wins this year. Its not going to be a gigantic difference but it takes a minute to get a losing culture out of a team. If they can manage to finish over 500, let alone get a playoff birth, it makes getting francona worth it. They werent going to do it with the other guy. So im never going to buy that a good manager isnt very valuable. I know some are saying to follow the cubs lead and wait til they have the right players. First i dont believe in following the cubs, heck they should be an A level affiliate for the cardinals. Secondly i think having the right manager be there having a hand in rebuilding this team and its culture and reaching the mountain top together is the stuff legends are made of. Now if ownership doesnt want to get on board for this magical ride and get out of their own way, then maybe they need to sell. To quote a famous saying, get busy livin,or get busy dyin. We need some excitement jazzed into this organization.
A better manager can squeeze out a few more wins but that is about it and by the way the Reds aren’t in a rebuild. I think they spent more than $2M last winter and they didn’t sell at this past deadline. They are at least pretending to be trying to win which makes Francona a better fit for them. The Cardinals are not in that position.
In my opinion he has been a disaster with the younger players over his 4 years…he has to go or they are going nowhere….need a new culture in the organization ASAP
A few more wins, thats just not true. A good manager can make or break a franchise. I dont care if its yesteryear, today, or tomorrow. Doesnt matter what stage a team is in. In fact i would argue the worse the better a good manager will be. Good leadership is always downplayed til its obvious no leadership is there. Sure some players are leaders but i dont think the cardinals have that in any players now. So time to find a manager that has leadership qualities, like i said, sooner the better. Waiting just keeps status quo in place.
From another thread:
Regarding Francona, here are the Reds results the last six years.
2020 w/o Francona .517 win %
2021 w/o Francona .512 win %
2022 w/o Francona .383 win %
2023 w/o Francona .506 win %
2024 w/o Francona .475 win %
2025 with Francona .503 win %I am not seeing the needle moving yet.
I agree, Willie. There’s no question that the arrival of both Whitey and TLR ushered in new eras of winning baseball for two different Cardinal franchise ownership groups. It’s entirely clear that an experienced field manager with leadership qualities is paramount to the fortunes of any baseball team.
If the Cardinals really wanted to make a statement that says, “We are not holding back in our effort to be competitive”, they could follow the Rangers 2023 plan.
To do that they would need to do something like this:
– can Marmol and hire Buck Showalter as manager
– sign either one of the Kyle’s – Tucker or Schwarber
– sign Dylan CeaseAlthough almost anyone would be an improvement over the current Redbird manager, I’d take Descalso far and away over Showalter. In fact, I’d take Daniel over Skippy.
Sorry brian you cant look at all those years before and then put not quite one year against all those and make somekind of profound statement. Going back five years you are probably talkibg about some different players. More app to look at last 3 which would closer mirror the team he has and his season stacks up a good deal better vs overall 3 year numbers. To me its year two thats going to tell the tale. If he finishes about 500 next year then we can say it didnt matter. But if he ends up winning 85 to 90 games which wouldnt surprise me then you will see where im coming from. And im not saying francona is whitey or anything but i feel he has qualties and experience our manager does not. Personally i dont really feel the reds have more talent than the cardinals. Not a lot anyway. But the main thing is the cardinals have at least in somewhat recent memory of having quality teams. Tbe reds exvept for an outlier here or there have been pretty bad at best average for about 3 decades. A losing culture can be hard to overcone. Its a fair warning for the cardinal organization.
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