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Gscottar – the problem was two fold. First, Stratton had been used the night before and Gallegos and Helsley had not. Second, Gallegos and Helsley are your go to guys in late and close. Whether they have struggled some this year or not, they have been the guys. Stratton has been more of a mop-up guy.
I will concede the first point as to availability based on prior usage.
The second point is rather subjective. I certainly don’t view Gallegos or Helsley as go to guys. They have had good moments occasionally but neither has the consistency to be a ninth inning reliver in my opinion. Both of them, in addition to Stratton and Hicks, should be used in innings 6-8 only. We really don’t have a quality 9th inning reliever which is a roster problem that the front office should fix, since it is the job of the front office to set the roster.
blingboy said:
I kind of think that is also how the Front Office evaluates the system as well, which is a big part of the problem, since how it rates is irrelevant. The objective of the system is not to impress those rating the 30 systems, and light up whatever metrices and spreadsheets and algos they use. The system exist solely for the purpose of supplying the MLB roster with what it needs.
OK, you don’t care for farm system rankings. You want MLB results. So let’s use WAR for MLB players drafted by each organization. In an analysis conducted by Baseball America for the drafts in the decade of 2010-2019, the Cardinals ranked sixth, this despite them drafting relatively late in the round every year.
(Of course none of this has much to do with Marmol or Matheny who did not draft or develop anyone…)
Marmol should be gone, NOW!
From day 1, he has divided the clubhouse.. starting in Spring.
Veterans you get your stuff done, and younger players stay out of their way.!
I think maybe, Maybe 1/2 of the team is ok with him… the other 1/2 would love to see a change.
He has zero respect from a majority of the team, and it shows… nobody really wants to play for him.
Look at the successful managers of today and past, all have the respect of the players and for the most part like the manager… I don’t think anybody really like Ollie.Actually if you look at Flores tenure we rank even higher. Only if the international program could do as well. The Cardinals strategy of signing quantity over quality and signing older players have resulted minimal if any help at the major league level. And no one in MLB or BA top 100 prospects.
They should just rank the MLB teams, and whoever the wonks like best gets the WS flag. Actual on field results injects too much random noise and the difficult to quantify human elements. They could start with the algo they use to rank systems and tweek it to rank the MLB teams. A decision would have to be made about how to value and factor in the de Groms and Strasburgs. Do they add to their team’s strength or not?
Back on the subject of Marmol, I’ve been keeping track of anything Mo says, and there is nothing to suggest any dissatisfaction. But, of course, he hadn’t expressed dissatisfaction with Shildt either.
That assumes the impetus for firing him would be some kind of dissatisfaction, which wouldn’t have to be the case. After all, Mo knows who is calling the shots. But it could be done to quiet the angry mob. If the mob ever gets angry, that is.
I wonder if BDW would give Mo that extension now. I’m thinking maybe not. The extension implies that BDW thought everything was just fine as of February. At that time we were a 93 win team that took the Division by 7 games. The roster is not hugely different, except in the area of veteran leadership. The veterans that are still hear ran off while the team was getting sorted out for the season. So we came out of the gate having had no veteran leadership at all. That would be a huge difference from the previous spring.
I don’t think he makes it to the end of the season, but I’m resigned to think by the time the plug gets pulled it’ll be, like you mentioned, only to serve the purpose of quieting the angry mob and much too late to make a difference. Girardi was sacked at about 50 games in while the Phillies were 7 games under. The Cardinals are 12 under .500 and have been as bad as 14 under this season. If any action was going to be taken to right the course, it should already occured. I’d guess that by the time the Redbird manager’s sacked, it’ll serve no other practical purpose other than a PR ploy to create a false sense of optimism for next season.
Speaking of Girardi I bet he would have interest in this job. I have no reason to believe the interest would be mutual. Probably not since we usually hire internals only.
Kiley McDaniel at ESPN has an article where he says he rates LSU’S baseball team, which is vying for the national title, it terms of prospect value, the same way he rates minor league symptoms. He wonders how LSU stacks up against the Mets system. Since I’m not a subscriber, I can only see the thumbnail. If someone could take a look and report back it might be interesting.
As we have moved on it has become pretty clear what the “philosophical differences” were when the brass gave Shildt the pink slip.
Mike wanted some autonomy on game decisions and did things he felt were right at times, that went against upper management’s recommendation. The big boys no doubt said if he insists on continuing to do that, a change would be made. Shildt likely said, “Okay, make the change.”
Nah, Schildt was blindsided by his canning, he didn’t challenge them to “make a change”. In fact, Mo started the conversation with “this isn’t going to go like you think it is”. That quote was made public.
Schildt thought he was going to be offered an extension.
Yeah, I recall reading that quote of Schildt’s memory of the conversation with Johnny. What’s more is that the conversation regarding his firing was reportedly conducted over the telephone. I’d have to guess that’s either a safety precaution or the preferred method of a cupcake.
The Shildt firing was a 5-minute zoom call with Mo and BDW according to Shildt. He said he had no idea. He made it clear it was a case of you can’t have differing opinions with Mo. He said he had shared some ideas with Mo on how he thought the organization could improve, out of his love for the Cardinals. He thought he had earned the respect and safe status to do that, but said he obviously was wrong.
Yep 1td, Mo is up on all the latest analytics for running a team, so you know he would use the best technology to let a man go with class.
You hit the nail hard though — he’s a coward. He loves to find him a scapegoat when the light might start to shine on himself. He’s one of those corporate weasel types who make me think of the incompetent and toxic leaders (not leaders) in Vietnam who knew not to dare get in front of their troops in the field. They’d get taken out quickly.
Yeah, you know I was just funnin’ around, Euro, and wasn’t seriously implying that Schidlt would dare take a swing at him or even launch into some sort of verbal assault because I genuinely don’t think there was the slightest chance of something like that happening. And I don’t think Johnny did either. I think it was a simple case of him not possessing the testicular fortitude to engage himself in what could be termed an uncomfortable conversation without the option of having the assured ability to quickly scurry away and burrow back down into his comfortable den…
I wasn’t a Shildt fan but the more I find out about Mo and his lack of character the more I want him gone.
It’s pretty clear that his ideas on roster building will -at best – keep the Cards just good enough to sneak into the playoffs and then get crushed.
Maybe that is what ownership has told him to do. I’m sure they are all alarmed at being 10 games under and will try to fix that BUT it appears that slogging along playing .500 baseball until the all star break then making a couple of moves that just get the team over the hump and into the playoffs is the goal.
From a John Mozeliak interview with Katie Woo earlier this week:
How would you evaluate the job Oli Marmol is doing as manager?
This is always a tough question to answer, because people will say we’re not winning. But I think he’s done an amazing job. I think he has the trust of the players. Unfortunately, he wasn’t dealt the hand he thought he was going to get. You have to make adjustments, those things happen. I do think he does a really good job, and I think most importantly, he has the trust of players.
Notice how he emphasizes trust of the players by repeating it…
https://theathletic.com/4587649/2023/06/07/cardinals-president-john-mozeliak-last-place/
I doubt if us armchair quarterbacks really have any idea on what is going on in the clubhouse but I would say that Mo defending Ollie is predictable. What else is he going to say? “My handpicked third rookie manager in a row, who replaced my fairly successful second rookie manager, isn’t getting the job done.”
No he probably won’t say that.
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