- This topic has 304 replies, 34 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 11 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
I hope you are wrong dac. It would be totally retarded to go into next year slobbering over our wonderful prospects again, unprepared for injuries and implosions and end up like we are now. Again.
I think Mo will look for a couple guys he can bring in to take starts and eat innings with somewhat OK results without a longer term commitment. Like a Kim for example. (I doubt he will do a 4/70 or whatever Mikolas was) One or two rotation slots to give unproven guys a shot is enough.
It is an absolute mystery why Thompson isn’t in Springfield. I don’t see how getting bashed every game in Memphis is helping his development.
There has been talk of bringing Liberatore up this year. I would not do it. Give him more time to develop and bring him up next year. The only time this organization shows urgency is when it comes to rushing prospects.
Mikolas is owed $17M each of the next two years so you can bet he will be in the rotation if he has any health remaining at all. The contract always plays.
The team we have now is probably a solid AAA team – nothing more.
I really think Mikolas is done. Anyone counting on him to pitch at all any more – much less well – is begging to be disappointed.
Will Hudson be back and be good? Who knows?
Will Flaherty be injury prone the rest of his career? Who knows?
Do you really want Wainwright to be the ‘ace’ of the staff? I don’t.
I really do not think this mess is fixable in a single off season….
It is an absolute mystery why Thompson isn’t in Springfield.
Because you need to bring somebody up from Springfield to replace him. And nobody from Sprinfield is answering the call.
I really think Mikolas is done.
Agreed
I like that potential rotation of Flaherty, Hudson, Reyes Liberatore and a Mr X at five, perhaps Waino.
Reyes needs to stay in the bullpen.
Bring in an outside starter like: 1) Scherzer 2) Lynn 3) Stroman
If you figure the salaries of Carpenter + Folwer = Arenado
Then, CMart + Miller = Scherzer?
Thanks, bicyclemike. I will say that rotation looks like it has a higher ceiling but I also wonder about injury risk, walks, and if we would get enough innings from our starters. I should have included Mikolas as well in that list as a possibility. I still think we need to make some bargain signings and have a competition in spring training, then whomever does not make the starting five can be used to strengthen the bullpen
ZTR said:
The team we have now is probably a solid AAA team – nothing more.
Quote from Hummel game article posted on stltoday after the game talking about the Pirates pitcher who no hit us through 5: “Only nine days ago, the Memphis Redbirds’ Class AAA club scored five runs off Kranick in five innings”
You might be rather generous with your comment ZTR.
I realize this is a “the sky is falling” thread, but these two comments from ZTR seemed worthy of rebuttal.
Will Hudson be back and be good? Who knows?
Is there something uniquely bad about his Tommy John compared to the hundreds who recovered just fine?
Will Flaherty be injury prone the rest of his career? Who knows?
What? He is 25 years old and has already made 86 starts in the majors. This is his first ever IL move.
Scherzer or Stroman, cool. Lynn won’t happen, because that would be Mo admitting he made a mistake in letting him go. Mo is like every corporate boss and won’t admit a mistake like that. Every one of his ideas is golden, if he didn’t think of it, it’s trash. Until he needs it of course, then it was his idea. Albert, Maddux, Schildt, even powerless Girsch will be scapegoats. Can only hope BD3 wakes up at some point.
Thompson is supposed to be a prized prospect and future rotation piece. Frankly I value his development over most of our other pitching prospects. Having him get repeatedly lit up at AAA doesn’t seem to be working. If Memphis is that desperate for innings and Springfield has no one worthy of promotion then sign another minor league FA or Indy pitcher. Shouldn’t be that difficult.
The only rebuilding needed is a new Manager and a new coaching staff. I don’t want to hear about something good taken from a loss because it’s a loss. You probably count on both hands the number of time Schildts decisions have cost the Cardinals a victory. Logic does not factor in his decision but mainly hope and/or helping a player relive his past glory like Carp or DeJong. Here’s what you need to do with Carp. If you feel the need to start Carp, he gets 2ab and if he gets no hits… he doesn’t get a 3rd Ab. And each time Carp is up.., bunt towards 3rd.
I don’t think it time for a complete rebuild but there needs to be some changes made. I don’t know the happenings in the clubhouse but I am concerned about our hitting coach. The team doesn’t seem to be responding to him. Also, it is time for the team to start emphasizing control and location with its pitchers and not just throwing as hard as they possibly can.
For 2022, I would build the SP around Flaherty, Reyes, Hudson and Wainwright. I would try to sign either Scherzer or Lynn. We need workhorses to throw with Reyes and Hudson. I would let Martinez, Miller and Carpenter go away. If Kim can be re-signed for cheap, sign him for the ‘pen. Don’t count on Mikolas. Let Liberatore start 2022 in Memphis.
Evaluate the minors for the rest of the year. If Gorman gets called up to Memphis in the next couple of weeks and hits well the rest of the year, give him a shot to make the big club in spring training. Evaluate Nootbar for the rest of the year. Maybe he can be part of the solution.
I would trade O’Neill for the right price and/or DeJong. I think one of them needs to go for the good of the offense. We have too many players who strike out too much. Right now, Sosa would be my starting SS. We have to also recognize that Goldschmidt might be slowing down and may need to hit 4th, 5th or even 6th in the lineup.
The problem with the offense going into this year –
1.) Your catcher was 38 years old.
2.) Your SS had been on a 3 year downhill slide.
3.) Your 2B had never played more than 92 games in a season.
4.) Your left fielder had hit .173 in the previous shortened season.
5.) Your CFer had hit .205 his last full season.
6.) Lane Thomas had played in 52 major league games.
7.) Dylan Carlson had played in 35 major league games.
8.) Justin Williams had played in 3 major league games.Some posters say it sounds like a broken record, but you had a seriously aging catcher, a SS on a 3 year decline, a basic rookie at 2B, and not one proven major league outfielder going into the 2021 season. And you wonder why the Cards right now rank 27th in batting average, 28th in OBP, 28th in OPS, and 26th in runs scored.
The multi-state Cardinal Nation deserves a heck of a lot better.
I never thought this was the year the team was going to strongly compete for the world series, but I did feel the team could win 90 games if things went right. I did feel the team needed to properly assess what they had in the younger players. I think they are getting an idea. Now, they need to address the weaknesses for next year.
Despite all of that bccran this team was cruising in first place until our pitching cratered. This team was built to win with pitching and defense and without consistently good pitching it has no chance to win. The organization vastly overestimated our pitching depth.
I would also like to say that I don’t completely buy the argument that “every team has injuries so just deal with it”. We see this every year with the Cardinals, it isn’t just because of a covid hangover. I think they seriously need to invest more resources into evaluating and preventing catastrophic injuries. Getting hit by a pitch or running into a wall or landing on the base wrong are just baseball injuries but we seem to lead the league in muscle strains.
I hate to be a second guesser or deal in revisionist history but I keep thinking about the talent we had at Memphis in 2018 and wonder what could have been. That team was so loaded.
Tyler O’Neill
Edmundo Sosa
Rangel Ravelo
Oscar Mercado
Patrick Wisdom
Luke Voit
Adolis Garcia
Carson Kelly
Randy Arozarena
Max SchrockO’Neill and Sosa are the only two we still have. While I understand that at the time those other players left, the organization could justify the move but the bottom line is that most of the players on that list would look really good on our roster right now. It is very frustrating. Even Randal Grichuk is getting all star votes.
I trace a lot of the problems back to the Fowler and Carp contracts. The Cardinals felt obligated to play those guys no matter what which led to some of our younger players being blocked.
There are sites that track injuries across MLB. I don’t have the time right now to check the data but it is out there. Perception may or may not be reality.
BCRAN,
Thanks for the TRUTH. I just cringe when I read we don’t need a complete rebuild. It won’t happen but the FO needs to be cleaned out first at seasons miserable end then look hard at the manager. This roster does NOT work at all. This is a stale organization that needs a FULL housecleaning.
The state of the organization as of today:
St. Louis: 37-41
Memphis: 18-30
Springfield: 16-31
Peoria: 19-29
Palm Beach: 17-31We can debate why those records are the way they are but the bottom line is that 2021 has been a disaster for this organization. I don’t see how there couldn’t be some kind of shakeup at the end of the season.
About the only silver lining is that the hitting prospects are doing pretty well this year. The pitching prospects, not so much (although I believe many are young for their level or being challenged for their experience time). Looks like we’ll be spending our war chest on pitching rather than hitting.
It’s a catch-22, and we’ve now come full circle.
The same broken record that wants Ozuna and proven vet batters signed, is actually endorsing blocking our next Arozarena and Garcia type prospects.
This leads to the “ones that we let get away” discussions, because we did acquire vet bats and block our prospects.
So the FO pivots, as if they’d errored, and plays our auditioning young players to prevent good prospects blossoming elsewhere, and guess what the broken record wants now?
Yep, back to acquire more vet bats!
That’s a lose-lose scenario for the FO because you can’t evaluate prospects at mlb while they’re riding the pine behind proven vet bats.Well JJ, you can certainly get an experienced bat or two for depth, and not rely 100% on unproven young guys. Nothing wrong with the young guys earning their spots as #4 or #5 outfielders. Play their way into a starting role. All I wanted this off season was one experienced OFer added to the mix. So we didn’t have to play an infielder like Edman in the outfield. A Brad Miller type guy, but for the OF. Too much to ask?
For this half season O’Neill has earned the cleanup role, and Carlson is at leadoff for good reason.
To start the season they were both unknowns for 2021, and now the FO knows more, because Mo didn’t block them with Brantley type acquisitions.
Imagine if Mo had dealt O’Neill and he is having the same 21′ elsewhere…. We’d have another player to add to the Arozarena / Garcia list.
It’s a lose-lose for the FO. They can’t be perfect either.
C – 38 year old
1b – Fine
2B – 157 MLB games
SS – Declining for the last 3 years.
3B – FineLF – O’Neill – Hit .173 in 2020. Had been in 171 MLB games
CF – Bader – Hit .226 IN 2020. Career .234 hitter.
RF – Carlson – Hit .200 in 2020. had been in 35 MLB games.
Thomas – Hit .111 in 2020 . Had been in 52 MLB games.
Williams – Hit .200 in 2020. Had been in 3 MLB games.So, JJ, they couldn’t have signed a Joc Pederson type to provide a bit of experienced OF depth? Thomas and Williams have failed and Bader was injured. Do you like Edman in RF?
Is he a corner OF type? What about Scott Hurst? There’s a real winner for you.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.