Is it time for a complete rebuild?

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  • #164760
    bccran
    Participant

    It might be time for our moderator BW, who sometimes doubles as a poster, to check in. It would be really interesting to hear what he has to say about the state of the team right now. As well as what he reads into Tommy Edman’s comments.

    #164763
    blingboy
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    Looking back to 2019, at the end is when they should have fired Shildt after the locker room video incident instead of trading the young outfielder that filmed it.

    I don’t know about the firing Shildt part, but trading probably your best AAA hitter for a good A level pitcher was profoundly stupid, whatever instigated it. Maybe should have fired whoever did that.

    #164765
    14NyquisT
    Participant

    Its very tough to hear those words from stl25. He’s one of the Card’s biggest supporters.

    #164766
    Ratsbuddy
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    Free

    As well as what he reads into Tommy Edman’s comments.

    What exactly did Edman say?

    #164768
    blingboy
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    Rat he thinks the hitting sucks because guys are not being properly prepared day to day by the staff. Its in today’s P-D, stltoday.com

    #164771
    LACardFan
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    What exactly did Edman say?

    Edman on Zoom

    I don’t think we’ve necessarily done the greatest job of making a game plan for how guys are going to throw us day-by-day and working on things pre-game that are specifically tailored to prepare ourselves for that. So I think we’re going to kind of start to implement a few more of those things into our pre-game routines and hopefully that helps us out.”

    #164772
    LACardFan
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    Free

    Fire Albert

    #164776
    1982 willie
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    The problem I have with edman saying what he said is that players themselves are still accountable. What he said may very well be true. But I do know edman is one of those guys that is scared to take a walk and he’s our leadoff guy normally. But like I’ve said, when the pirates are scoring 8 runs off your staff, hitting isn’t the most concerning thing although it’s still a concern. We may need to fire some people to get things back on track or at least trekking positively going into next season.

    #164777
    Wooster
    Participant

    Free

    If you don’t get results sometimes you have to shake things up. Would be good to see them win a few games. I’d be looking at my stregnths right now and working on my weaknesses

    #164780
    gscottar
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    But like I’ve said, when the pirates are scoring 8 runs off your staff, hitting isn’t the most concerning thing although it’s still a concern

    I agree willie. I have said this over and over also. We could have eight Mike Trout’s in the lineup and this team still isn’t winning until they get their pitching straightened out.

    #164782
    ZTR
    Participant

    Free

    Now 6 games out – need to squeeze that back inside 5 and keep hanging around to see if they can turn the season.

    The division is a dumpster fire – a slightly above average team can win it…..

    #164786
    TexasCard
    Participant

    Free

    ZTR wrote: Now 6 games out – need to squeeze that back inside 5 and keep hanging around to see if they can turn the season.

    The division is a dumpster fire – a slightly above average team can win it…..

    I would love to see it but in the last 35 days the Cardinals are 10 games off the pace of the division leading Brewers and 8 off the pace of the Cubs. On May 21, St. Louis was 4 games up on the Brew Crew and 2 up on the Cubs whom they promptly lost 12-3 at home that night. It’s been trending downward for a while now.

    #164794
    kscardfan
    Participant

    Free

    Being a Jayhawk fan I have seen a lotta greatness and a lotta suck. This team is is reminding me of KU Football. That’s something I never thought would happen. The worst outfield in Cardinal history They cant hit they can’t throw a strike. They are bad. as I’ve always heard you can’t fire all your players so Schildt Albert Maddux need to go. Mo needs to go for sure. KU Football. That is bad.

    #164820
    bccran
    Participant

    Wasn’t always that way with KU football. Hadl, Sayers, Riggens, Zook, Cromwell, etc. were pretty darned good.

    #164826
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    They had some good teams when the big man was there right? Mangino?

    #164829
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    This article focuses mostly on the offense. I would argue the pitching failures deserve as much attention. Regardless, the seats for Albert and Maddux have to be getting extremely hot and Shildt’s seat is probably warming up also.

    #164832
    bicyclemike
    Moderator

    Paid - Annual

    Earlier in the season I questioned Albert’s methods. Most of the examples were related to O’Neill, but the entire lineup seems to have issues with pitch selection. Thus I wonder if Albert talks to these guys about that – basically what to look for in particular counts.

    It seem the basic instincts are not there with a lot of our hitters. They are not ready to pull the trigger on pitches in the zone that can be hit hard. And there have been many times where we are ahead in the count, and the hitter will swing a ball where you cannot really do much with it.

    It all goes back to the Ted Williams graph where he showed a diagram of the strike zone, and had batting averages posted on the various zones within the strike zone. Middle area was a .400 zone, down and away was .150, stuff like that.

    Then you add the dimension of the count, where on a 2-0 or 3-1 count, you focus on something in a good hitting zone and are ready to pounce. But don’t go flailing away if the pitch is a borderline strike.

    If you are 1-2, you have to go into protect mode and be ready to get some contact on a pitch that is a borderline strike. But as Jim Edmonds preaches on the broadcasts, stay behind the ball. Keep your hands back and let the ball come to you.

    I question whether Albert talks about this stuff. If he does, then it is an execution problem where guys are likely getting fouled up with the whole launch angle stuff. But most of these guys have enough power to where the home runs will come, if they simply concentrate on the fundamentals.

    #164840
    kscardfan
    Participant

    Free

    I go back to Hadl Sayers Riggins etc Riggins my fav. scottar I loved Mangino. Has been a disaster since. Kinda like this team. Major management rebuild. Get some Cardinal blood in these positions. The likes of Simmons Willie Jose C Carpenter etc. Edmonds wants a shot at hitting Coach give him a shot.

    #164862
    blingboy
    Participant

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    Maybe the Cards will look at Nate Jones who is a FA now. He was an OK middle reliever as recently as 2019 I think. Remember the bar is low at the far end of the bench out in the pen right now.

    #164914
    dac8b9
    Participant

    The longer this goes on, the more I wish we would commit to a rebuild. This organization is in a perilous spot that will take some time and a lot of smart moves to get out of. We have no depth in the big league club or upper minors to fill in when guys get injured. The state of the pitching in our organization is quite possibly the worst I can remember. Outside of Liberatore, what pitching prospect could we reasonably expect to be in the rotation within the next three years? Thompson is probably the only other guy but he has been horrible this year. We have some lottery tickets in the low minors that could work out, but they are multiple years and a lot of development away from being anything we can count on. I think we need to go heavy on pitching in the draft this year as a course correction. I really hope the front office doesn’t trade any prospects to acquire big league talent for the next couple years. We have some intriguing guys in the low minors but our system really needs to be rebuilt. Not just with prospects but with overall depth as well. My hope is that we try to make some value signings like we did in acquiring Mikolas and Kim, to rebuild our depth in St. Louis and Memphis. We don’t need a Scherzer level acquisition, that would tie up too much money.

    #164916
    bccran
    Participant

    Dac –

    Rondon

    #164918
    dac8b9
    Participant

    Bccran, he’s only got two pitches and looks more suited to the bullpen if you ask me.

    #164919
    bccran
    Participant

    Still developing. Could be rotation talent.

    #164922
    dac8b9
    Participant

    Maybe, sure. I know he was pitcher of the year when he was at Springfield and he is 23, so still within prospect age range. But him turning into a viable big league starter is far from a lock. That being said, he could be a valuable bullpen piece next year.

    Thompson struggling so much is a far bigger issue than that, though Rondon’s numbers at Memphis aren’t great either. Going into this season, I was hoping both Liberatore and Thompson could be in the big league rotation sometime next year. But Thompson is not on that timeline with the year he’s had. Which really puts the front office in a bind as we only have so much money to spend.

    Rotation next year could be Flaherty, Hudson, Reyes, Liberatore, and maybe Wainwright? Lot of talent but also a big potential of blowing up in our faces as well.

    #164925
    bicyclemike
    Moderator

    Paid - Annual

    Great input Dac! I like that potential rotation of Flaherty, Hudson, Reyes Liberatore and a Mr X at five, perhaps Waino.

    That rotation alone, if able to stay healthy, should make 2022 better than 2021 has been so far.

    It is looking more and more like we need to get Gorman on the big league club next year. My guess is Arenado stays put, which means left field is the place for him. I would be grooming him as an outfielder the way the Royals did with Alex Gordon. Move O’Neill to center, or possibly right with Carlson at the other spot. That is a good young rotation and outfield.

    We are a little age heavy at first base, but are committed to Goldschmidt so not much we can do, and that is okay. I wish we had kept Wong, but water under the bridge at this point and Edman is about the best option we have. Let Sosa play at short, Arenado will be solid at third. Decent lineup. Need to upgrade the bench, and put the bullpen together.

Viewing 25 posts - 51 through 75 (of 305 total)
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