Home › The Cardinal Nation Forums › Open Forum › Hot stove – Winter 2022/23
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Brian Walton.
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December 21, 2022 at 8:53 am #209629
14NyquisT
ParticipantThe NYM now have some quality talent to trade off. They are filled to the gills.
December 21, 2022 at 8:56 am #209630Giant reversal: Correa headed to Mets after San Francisco deal falls through https://t.co/sri35vttZ2
— Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) December 21, 2022
Mets stun baseball with middle-of-the night $315M deal for superstar Carlos Correa, who will play 3B in Queens. “We needed one more thing, and this is it,’ Cohen told @nyposthttps://t.co/kYNC6xHsnN
— Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) December 21, 2022
December 22, 2022 at 10:16 am #20970114NyquisT
ParticipantThis could be fun to go over… but its one man’s opinion and IMO not one of these will actually be the opening lineup come March for any of the teams that are ranked.
The Top 10 lineups in baseball for ’23 are …
December 21st, 2022
Anthony CastrovinceDid he get the Cards in the right spot?
December 22, 2022 at 10:42 am #209703I clicked on the top 10 line-up link and when I saw that this guy had Brendan Donovan placed in the #5 slot for the Redbirds his credibilty disappeared quicker than a fighter jet on afterburn.
December 22, 2022 at 12:30 pm #209710The 4 ahead of the Cards are all top 10 payroll, the Cardinals are bottom half payroll, so we are getting a lot of bang for the buck.
Its also worth mentioning that the Mets, with the top ranked lineup, are putting together a roster like they are trying to win Tout Wars. We will see how it works out in real life. My guess is they will be rumblin, bumblin, stumblin, and won’t go all the way.
December 22, 2022 at 3:21 pm #209726The Mets will probably have a great regular season, because that’s what Buck Showalter does when he’s got the talent. But the man has made the playoffs six times and never had a winning record in October. He’s the anti-Torre, the anti-Bochy, the anti-Ned Yost.
When it comes to “top lineups,” there’s the Magnificent Seven, and then there’s everybody else. The Cards, Dodgers, Yanks, Mets, Braves, Stros, and Jays are quite evenly-matched. Any of them could be #1, any could be #7. It’s that close in my opinion. On the other hand, the author of the article has San Diego ranked second, which I would disagree with vehemently, since the Friars rated 12th last year in wRC+ and right now we have no idea what Fernando PED Tatis’ real legit level of baseball ability is — plus he’ll be missing for the first third of the season, even if he remains a superstar.
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On a related note, since I prefer to include fielding and baserunning in any evaluation of position players, here’s last year’s WAR totals for position players. I’ve taken the average of Fangraphs and Baseball-Reference. (I didn’t use Baseball-Prospectus because they have a truly goofy way of measuring hitters now that is basically all-theory, zero reality.)
2022 position player WAR, by team:
1) Yankees 35.9 WAR
2) Dodgers 35.8
3) Redbirds 35.1
4) Blue Jays 31.4
5) Astros 29.4
6) Metropolitans 29.1
7) Braves 28.4Among the above seven, the Cards might be tougher to rank than anyone this year because they have so many guys who should regress negatively or positively. Plus, the great Albert Pujols is gone (because let’s face it, he was great again, at least with the lumber in his mitts), which subtracts a chunk of offense. But Yadi is replaced by Contreras, which upgrades the backstop offense astronomically.
The thing about the Cards is, the Everyday Eight will be darn good. But I’m afraid the boring truth is the Birds still do not have championship-level pitching, though, and for the third straight year they’ll have to adjust on the fly in July. (Yeah, I know. I’m the 917th observer to mention this.)
They’re gonna have to win a lot of 6-5 games this year.
December 22, 2022 at 3:52 pm #209729Upgrading the pen is way cheaper than upgrading the rotation. But we do need to do one or the other.
As it stands now, the pitching could be anywhere from a debacle to good enough given the strength of our lineup. Improving the pen would improve our chances and Mo would be more likely to do that than a top starter.
December 22, 2022 at 3:55 pm #209730The Dodgers are headed for a drop off in 2023.
They have lost Trea Turner, Justin Turner, and Cody Bellinger while adding JD Martinez and Jason Heyward.
Gulp.
December 22, 2022 at 4:10 pm #209734The Dodgers are an interesting case. One of the top revenue generators in the sport and for the most part they have stayed on the sidelines. Some experts think they will be active in the trade market … It will be interesting to watch.
Cots shows them paying Bauer $32M in 2023 … ouch!
December 22, 2022 at 4:13 pm #209735Cots should have an asterisk by Bauer. This is under appeal, but yes, there is a possibility the Dodgers may have to pay him. However, they may not. This uncertainty of plus or minus $32MM is a huge reason the Dodgers are being so quiet in free agency this winter.
People are upset about bad Cardinals contracts… consider this one and count your blessings…
December 22, 2022 at 4:27 pm #209736Upgrading the pen is way cheaper than upgrading the rotation. But we do need to do one or the other.
Yes!
We have rp’s with the following MLB results in 2022:
Drew Verhagen: 21.2 IP; 6.65 ERA; 1.89 WHIP; 18 K; 14 BB; $3 million salary for 2023
Chris Stratton: 63.1 IP; 4.26 ERA; 1.53 WHIP; 60 K; 25 BB; $2.8 million salary for 2023We could have replaced either with:
Brad Boxberger: 64.0 IP; 2.95 ERA; 1.23 WHIP; 68 K; 27 BB; $2.8 million salary for 2023December 22, 2022 at 4:53 pm #209741“We have rp’s with the following MLB results in 2022:
Drew Verhagen: 21.2 IP; 6.65 ERA; 1.89 WHIP; 18 K; 14 BB; $3 million salary for 2023
Chris Stratton: 63.1 IP; 4.26 ERA; 1.53 WHIP; 60 K; 25 BB; $2.8 million salary for 2023”To be fair, though, Stratton was much more effective than that once he joined the Redbirds. Era of 2.78 and FIP the same (2.80). Cubs did get a good deal with Box, however. I’ll definitely give you that. He’s been very good for three years running.
It might be irrational exuberance, but I do like the Cardinal bullpen right now — assuming relievers remain relievers, and aren’t pressed into starting. (I’m thinking of Pallante, Naughton, Thompson in particular. If Ollie wants to start Woodford, he’s more than welcome. ;))
December 22, 2022 at 4:53 pm #209742Cots should have an asterisk by Bauer. This is under appeal, but yes, there is a possibility the Dodgers may have to pay him. However, they may not. This uncertainty of plus or minus $32MM is a huge reason the Dodgers are being so quiet in free agency this winter.
People are upset about bad Cardinals contracts… consider this one and count your blessings…
Up until a few weeks ago they had all of Bauer’s $35M applied to the 2023 payroll but then they removed it and listed his name at the bottom of the spreadsheet as suspended. Of course they will have to add some or all of it back depending on the appeal. You are right in that this is exactly why the Dodgers have been so quiet this offseason. They are paralyzed because they also want to stay under the CBT to reset. Bauer’s contract has been one of the biggest disasters in free agency history.
December 22, 2022 at 5:10 pm #209743Upon reflection, the Cardinals really dodged two bullets the year Price and Heyward were free agents. The Redbirds were in on both and lost out. That would have been a financial disaster if they had signed both.
December 22, 2022 at 8:08 pm #2097451982 willie
ParticipantWell having a good offense doesn’t mean anything if that offense does nothing in the post season which has been our trend. On the Mets side, surprised they swooped in and got Correa, but it’s a great move in my opinion. You either go all the way or no way. If anything they will be exciting for their fans.
December 22, 2022 at 8:20 pm #209747MLB and Trevor Bauer finally got their verdict: The pitcher will lose nearly $38 million in salary but be eligible to pitch immediately.
Now, the Dodgers are on the clock – they have up to 14 days to either sever ties or add Bauer to the roster.https://t.co/WUoUdvacPt— Gabe Lacques (@GabeLacques) December 23, 2022
December 22, 2022 at 9:05 pm #209748Hmmmm ….
December 22, 2022 at 9:16 pm #209749I was under the impression that as soon as Bauer’s name was removed from the restricted list that he became a FA. Why do the Dodgers have 14 days to decide if he remains on their roster? Also, it’s my understanding that the legal system determined that he broke no laws. If that’s indeed the case, it seems incredibly unfair that he be subjected to being penalized in the form of forfeiting that amout of money. That’s a tremendous sum.
December 22, 2022 at 9:26 pm #2097501982 willie
ParticipantYea Bauer has been done wrong here. I don’t know his innocence or guilt but nothing has been proved.
December 22, 2022 at 9:38 pm #209751Adding one quality arm from each side would really solidify the roster. We may already posses those arms, too. We have at least six intriguing right handers no one is counting on: Wilking R, Logan S, the minor league free agent, Pacheco, Walsh, and Naile. Any one of those breaking out would be huge.
The rotation competition at AAA could actually push an arm up. If Thomas or Thompson don’t have rotation spots, the club might even prefer them in the MLB pen as opposed to keeping Graceffo or McGreavy at AA.December 22, 2022 at 9:49 pm #209752Bob Reed…Nice observations. Especially the part about, “The Great Albert Pujols”…Haha! Incidentally, there are only two names present on the lists of all-time top 10 leaders in the categories of HR’s, RBI’s and Hits. You know…the really important stuff. I’m certain you know who one of those names belongs to. The other name belongs to Henry Aaron…
December 23, 2022 at 5:11 am #209763
jj-cf-stlParticipantNigel, I thought Thompson was our third best reliever last season, and our best LH relief pitcher. I hope he stays on the STL active roster.
December 23, 2022 at 6:19 am #209764If the Dodgers cut Bauer loose, do they owe him the $15M buyout?
December 23, 2022 at 7:00 am #209765
jj-cf-stlParticipantThe options deadline has already passed, it’s about his 2023 salary now.
The link above says they’d owe him over 22mil if released.
December 23, 2022 at 9:52 am #209773The Dodgers will release Bauer but will owe him about $25M for 2023, which puts them right up against the CBT deadline, which means their offseason is over if they want to reset their tax status or unless they can move more salary. What a fiasco for them.
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