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Just a quick aside. Next year at this time, barring injury, how do you line your starters up when they all most likely will be classified as #1’s….maybe a #2 or two at worst? Alphabetical order?
1. Flaherty
2. Martinez
3. Mikolas
4. Reyes
5. WachaAge?
1. Mikolas – 29
2. Martinez – 26
3. Wacha -26
4. Reyes – 23
5. Flaherty – 22Height?
1. Wacha – 6’6″
2. Mikolas – 6’5″
3. Flaherty 6’4″
4. Reyes – 6’3″
5. Martinez – 6’0″….on a good day.Salary? [ 2018 ]
1. Wacha – 5.3 Mil
2. Martinez – 4.5 Mil
3. Flaherty – 545K
4. Reyes – 507K
5. Mikolas – 502KFlip a coin.
Getting back to Holland… “somebody up there must love” us.
There are 6 pitchers on the DL and only one (CMart) is hurting us. With the rotation soon to be Wacha-Mikolas-Weaver-Flaherty-Reyes, he won’t be pressured into coming back too soon.
I don’t think it is a coincidence that most of our underperforming pitchers are now on the DL at the same time. The DL is used for many things besides injuries. I’m surprised MLB doesn’t police it closer.
Don’t be surprised… be glad it isn’t. We’d be stuck with some poor talent if those arms weren’t on the DL.
I’m not complaining. I just figured MLB would take a closer look after what the Dodgers did last year. Lucky us I guess.
The question is how much more time before we give up on Holland? He blew a game today for Memphis. If he doesn’t figure things out in his Memphis stint how can we expect him to get major leaguers out?
C27,
I guess the same way we seem to expect the guys in Memphis that are striking out all the time to somehow quit striking out once they get to St. Louis.The logic isn’t there. If you strikeout in Memphis you will strikeout more in St. Louis. If you blow games in Memphis you will blow more games in St. Louis.
Maybe some of our coaches and manager and GMs need to watch a few episodes of Star Trek and pay close attention to Spock and his logic.
r/Rat
Just for fun I went back to the beginning of this thread to see what was said about Holland pre-signing, the actual signing bliss, the rehab that was “too short”, the post rehab disappointment, the second rehab and now we await his return again. Talk about a falling stock.
Perhaps Bw52 saw through the hype and overrating of yet another FO disaster. *********************************************************************************
March 29, 2018 at 11:33 am #46687REPLY
Bw52
Participant
I don`t like this move at all. 14 million and losing high draft pick.Stupid move in my opinion.I was happy with the signing but not because I thought he would give us 40 saves. I was just pleased to see our front office finally give signs of “going for it” after sitting on their hands watching the Cubs bash our heads in the last few years.
Unfortunately the timing was all off. Perhaps things would have been different had he been signed in early February instead of opening day. Mo has acknowledged that a lesson was learned on that. But I don’t think even Holland’s biggest critic could have predicted he would be this bad. He has gone from a top 10 closer to being in jeopardy of a DFA. Pretty remarkable.
On a different note I was thrilled with the Norris signing the day it happened and I stated so but I had no idea he would be this good.
There aren’t too many crystal balls that are clear enough to see what directions Norris and Holland have gone. Let’s keep our fingers crossed for Norris to continue onward. Holland might just be shot, time to move on. I sure hated to see that draft pick being lost… the $$$ lost ain’t mine. This is assuming that he doesn’t a quick 180 and somehow show something.
I was actually pretty happy with the signing at first. But I saw that first Holland outing and thought, this is not the same Greg Holland I remember.
We’re two and a half months into the season and the front office is 1 for 7 signing on veteran relievers for the bullpen. Norris is the “1” and he has been a positive force. Cecil, Gregerson, Leone, Holland, Guillmet and Mujica (AAA) have all been disappointments and have contributed very little and even shown a negative effect. Four of the six have kept the doctors busy while on the DL.
Instead the team has relied upon the the organization’s younger guys Lyons-Tuivailala- Hicks-Gomber plus the Memphis express Bowman-Brebbia-Mayers to maintain some effectiveness.
So that 1 for 7 =.143…. that’s worse than Fowler(.173) and Wong(.185). DFA the FO.
Just for fun I went back to the beginning of this thread to see what was said about Holland pre-signing, the actual signing bliss, the rehab that was “too short”, the post rehab disappointment, the second rehab and now we await his return again. Talk about a falling stock.
Lots of opinions going for and against. I was even calling this guy our closer but wondered why the sudden shift and paying so much money and losing the pick.
Well one things for sure. Holland will never make $14 million dollars in one season again and will be lucky to make $14 million the rest of his career.
Derrick Goold had this Q and A in his chat yesterday.
How much longer will the FO stick with these veterans who r not producing. Will it b in the nxt 2 weeks or will they wait till the trade deadline to fianally make a decision by Gollfff 2:02 PM yesterday
PermalinkLess than a month. by Derrick Goold 2:02 PM yesterday
I am not writing off Gregerson or Leone .If they can get healthy i think both can contribute.As for Holland…stick a fork in him..he`s finished IMHO.I think Cecil needs semi-regular appearrences to regain his effectiveness.Got to have a couple of Lefties in the pen.Gomber is still finding his way out of the pen since he had been starting at AAA.
It’s nice to have a couple of lefties in the ‘pen, but not critical. You really want guys who are effective and successful. If your 7 or 8 bullpen pitchers happen to be all right-hand throwers, so be it.
I like Gomber as a potential rotation member in a year or two. It would be great to have a lefty in the rotation. Again, not critical, but more important in my opinion than a lefty in the ‘pen, because a starter is going to pitch many more innings over the course of a season than a bullpen pitcher.
With Cecil’s and Lyons struggles and with Sherriff blowing his arm out. I’d almost rather find a loogy via trade. Not that I think both can’t improve but we’ve seen Cecil’s best and it’s not very good even when he’s on and Lyons just seems off this year. Honestly rather have Gomber pitch more in AAA because it’s clear after Gant stint in the rotation he’s more likely a bullpen arm moving forward. Although he’s starting in Memphis currently.
So yeah by my count that’s 2 bullpen arms needed unless you have Gant slot into the pen soon. I think it’s a little too much youth and rather find some veterans if indeed we’re going to “give it a month.” That could be costly unless someone just wants to dump some salary.
14NyquisT
We’re two and a half months into the season and the front office is 1 for 7 signing on veteran relievers for the bullpen. Norris is the “1” and he has been a positive force. Cecil, Gregerson, Leone, Holland, Guillmet and Mujica (AAA) have all been disappointments and have contributed very little and even shown a negative effect. Four of the six have kept the doctors busy while on the DL.
Instead the team has relied upon the the organization’s younger guys Lyons-Tuivailala- Hicks-Gomber plus the Memphis express Bowman-Brebbia-Mayers to maintain some effectiveness.
So that 1 for 7 =.143…. that’s worse than Fowler(.173) and Wong(.185). DFA the FO.
By this measure, they should win FO of the year! They are 1 for 1 on signing starting pitchers and 2 for 2 on trading (you incl. Leone) for or signing hitters ~ Ozuna and Pena.
Also, LMAO at including Guilmet or Mujica as anything more than minor league filler and equal to a Gregerson or Norris.
You can LYAO all you want…. do you think the Cards signed Mujica to pitch AAA ball? There was serious talk about him making the opening 25-man roster, he just didn’t pitch well enough to get a shot. Have you ever looked at his resume? Probably not.
Mujica’s overall numbers don’t look great, but in all honesty, they are inflated by two or three poor outings. Otherwise he has been rather solid. I know that all of the games count so cherry picking isn’t allowed but I guarantee you he wouldn’t be the worst member of our pen if here were in St. Louis right now, although that bar is pretty low.
Here’s another man’s opinion on the FO’s signings of free agents. If you have a queasy stomach it would be best to pass on this.
https://redbirddaily.com/st-louis-cardinals-with-free-agency-hindsight-is-always-20-20-6993/
14nyquis
Yes, I think the front office and anyone with any common sense expected mujica as nothing more than veteran AAA arm only appearing if he was lights out. If you have to feature this signing as evidence of the FO’s foolishness you are showing your own. The FO has made mistakes, but piling on with this crap is showing nothing but vitriol.
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