Greg Holland Thread

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This topic contains 247 replies, has 32 voices, and was last updated by stlcard25 stlcard25 1 year, 2 months ago.

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  • #49317
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    PadsFS
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    If you had said something before the game yesterday maybe. But he had a 3-something ERA heading into Tuesday.

    #49324
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    mudville
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    Lets not forget that Holland is on a one-year contract. If wants another $15M for next year and the years beyond, he will have to get his act together. And based on his past performance, he ought to be able to do that.

    #49326
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    NJ315
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    I though he had experience as a closer and if he is on the roster he should perform as such.

    #49327
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    grayssportsalmanacc
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    gs-
    “A long leash? How many games should we let him blow while we are waiting for him to get it together? Losses in April still count. I would have him on an extremely short leash until he proves he is ready.”

    Who is a better option right now in our pen? And there is the 14mm…i just dont see any real reason to send him down now unless gregerson exceeds expectations and holland continues to struggle over his next 3 to 4 outings

    #49331
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    wagee12
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    I see that some here apparently sit perched on a day to day basis to attack a new player at the first opportunity. LOL, but not my cup of tea.

    #49352
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    gscottar
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    Who is a better option right now in our pen? And there is the 14mm…i just dont see any real reason to send him down now unless gregerson exceeds expectations and holland continues to struggle over his next 3 to 4 outings

    Right now we have seven better options. I think Holland will improve a lot over the course of time but I don’t like the idea of letting him blow games while he is finding his stuff.

    #49603
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    grayssportsalmanacc
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    Norris obviously has the spot for now, but id like to see him today in a non pressure situation, im guessing we will…

    just saying 3 innings in april is a small sample size to judge…

    #49649
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    gscottar
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    The small sample size argument would make more sense had Holland had a normal spring training but it seems obvious that he just isn’t ready and has to have his spring training in April and early May. It is very unfortunate that terms were reached so late, whoever is to blame.

    #49718
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    PadsFS
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    Holland looked pretty good in his last outing touching 94 and having solid control over his nasty slider. I think he’s ready now.

    #49728
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    grayssportsalmanacc
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    pads try to be more reactionary, the man has an 8 era…

    #49744
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    gscottar
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    pads try to be more reactionary, the man has an 8 era…

    Cute comment but follow the evidence. The Cardinals didn’t spend $14M for him to be their 7th inning guy. If they felt he was ready he would be pitching in the 9th inning. He isn’t.

    I try to be realistic instead of reactionary.

    #49749
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    grayssportsalmanacc
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    lol wasnt trying to get snarky just having fun …im just saying he has been better every time since his first outing, albeit thats a low water mark..hes finding the zone but his velo is a def concern..hopefully he gets a good inning in today!

    #50619
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    1964cards
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    Question: The Cardinals sent Holland to Florida for about ten days to prep for the regular season after signing him. He missed a significant portion of spring training and entered the season short on prep time. Does the club still have the ability to send him back to the minor league complex to work through issues and better prepare himself to pitch at the major league level (e.g place him on the 15 day DL)?

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by Avatar 1964cards.
    #50632
    Brian Walton
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    Yes, but the DL is not the answer. Unless he is injured, he cannot go on the DL. Further, if placed on the DL, one would have to assume he would need to stop pitching for a period of time to recover – or it would be making the DL assignment a sham.

    Just the opposite is his case. He needs to keep pitching as regularly as possible.

    To go to Palm Beach initially, Holland agreed to be optioned to the minor leagues. If it is decided he needs to go back down, this would be the most likely route to take again.

    (P.S. A side point, but the regular DL is now just 10 days.)

    #50834
    Brian Walton
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    Sorry for the duplicate post from another thread, but I want to be able to find this post next time someone talks about Holland’s “bad finish” to 2017 and not have to do the research again and again.

    Actually, Holland finished 2017 very strongly. His only troubles last season were in August, after he cut a finger in a kitchen accident. Here is the link for those unaware of it.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/rockies/2017/08/03/greg-holland-rockies-closer-cuts-finger-kitchen-accident/536007001/

    Suppose a cut on the index finger of his pitching hand could have impacted his results?

    He was exceptional all season long, with an ERA under 2 in every month other than August, despite it being his first season coming off Tommy John surgery.

    Specifically in September, he went 1-1 with five saves in five attempts, struck out 12 and walked two with a 1.86 ERA in 9 2/3 innings.

    In my book, that is a strong finish, so I am curious what others are looking at.

    #50837
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    14NyquisT
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    Holland’s stats from 8-6 until 8-26 were bad and may have been caused by the finger incident, but Holland was never DLed and in this era pitchers get DLed for very insignificant and uncomfortable issues, even paper cuts.

    Holland pitched in 8 games during the period mentioned. In five of those games he was roughed up, pitching
    3.1 inn-14 ER- 4 losses. Those five games resulted in his very high ERA for Aug. I guess that’s what some here are referring to. In all fairness, calling the tail end of ’17 poor, based on those five games, may be unrepresentative of his performance overall.

    However, his performance so far in ’18 may be caused by other excuses.

    #53926
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    gscottar
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    It is time to have a serious discussion about Holland without all of the hyperbole. Brian, you are usually the voice of reason to counter balance the rest of us reactionaries so maybe you can weigh in.

    Seriously, what are the realistic options for the team?

    Can we convince him and his agent to agree to have him spend a few weeks in Springfield or Memphis to try to get things figured out? If he refuses do we just wait it out and put him in low leverage situations? This pretty much depletes our roster by one player.

    Do we find a reason to DL him and go the rehab route?

    Do we consider the DFA option and just cut our losses?

    Something has to give here and it needs to happen soon.

    #53943
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    thejager
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    I think a DL move is needed…psychological issues…guys have needed to go on the DL to “take a break”…plenty of good players have done that…he needs to regain his confidence…minor league rehab for a few weeks should make the decision of what to do with him clear…if he can’t go down and dominate then DFA may be necessary

    he said after his last bad game that he was up for anything that could help… a DL trip for psychological concerns may sound like BS, but it is a serious thing that maybe he actually needs… other players have needed to do that in the past..

    #53974
    BlackHillsCard
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    Greg Holland has sucked since August 6, 2017. He finished his last 19 games in 2017 with an ERA of 8.47 so this isn’t a fluke.

    #53985
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    PugsleyAddams
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    Jags may have hit the nail on the head with his psychological concerns. Every pitcher has X amount of miles until their arm no longer can efficiently get ML batters out. Holland’s miles may have simply been maxed out last August. If so, you can’t get them back, so you have no choice but to eat the cash and cut him loose.

    #53988
    bicyclemike
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    There are some good analyzes and opinions based on historical studies that the way the modern closer is used is not the best way to get value from him. Basically it is pretty simple – the closer does not pitch enough innings to justify a large investment.

    Had the front office looked at the data, there is no way they would have given Holland the deal he got. Fortunately they only committed to one year. But then, it’s not my money. However, being a fan of this ball club it’s tough to watch them make some of the decisions they do.

    Of course this comes with the territory of fandom. I am still upset that they traded Bobby Tolan, Steve Carlton, Jerry Reuss and Mike Torrez.

    #53991
    Brian Walton
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    Every time someone says Holland was bad since August, I point out that they are glossing over important details. He had a cut finger in August which is well documented. Please look at his September numbers and report what you see.

    P.S. It does not seem too hard for me to figure out what happened. Colorado was in the hunt for their first playoff berth this decade. Holland tried to pitch through an injury and did poorly. When he healed, he was back to himself for the final month.

    To imply he was damaged goods and the Cards should not have signed him for that reason has no basis in fact.

    That does not change his 2018 to date, which has led to Monday morning quarterbacking.

    #53992
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    gscottar
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    Mike, I have to disagree.

    Chapman is worth the money.

    Kimbrel is worth the money.

    Wade Davis is worth the money.

    We just picked the wrong guy to spend on unfortunately.

    #53993
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    NJ315
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    And down he goes to the DL right hip impingement.

    #53996
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    gscottar
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    Well we all surmised this was going to happen and it did. It is probably the best option. I suspect we won’t see him again anytime soon.

    And I agree with jager that once Reyes and CMart are back we can put Gant in the bullpen. I think Gant is really good for a couple of innings. He just didn’t get any support last night.

    I wonder what will happen with Weaver though? CMart, Mikolas, Wacha, Flaherty, and Reyes aren’t going anywhere. I suppose they could piggy back a couple of them every five days.

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