Greg Holland Thread

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This topic contains 247 replies, has 32 voices, and was last updated by stlcard25 stlcard25 11 months, 1 week ago.

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  • #41100
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    PadsFS
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    I don’t understand the disinterest in Holland.

    #41103
    Brian Walton
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    Here is a Rockies’ site that earlier this off-season, put together a numbers-based view of why they hoped Colorado would not re-sign Holland.

    Key issues: Lack of durability, lower fastball velocity and no long-term success record. Holland is looking for a proven closer contract based on one good year.

    My observation: Colorado has spent a lot of money on relief this winter, but Holland is not among them.

    https://www.purplerow.com/2017/11/27/16700584/mlb-free-agency-colorado-rockies-greg-holland-case-against

    #41110
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    PadsFS
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    They did offer Holland although we don’t know what the contract was.

    #41413
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    I saw that on the radio Goold said the Cardinals are definitely in on Greg Holland.

    Also said that Alex Reyes opening day is planned for May 1st, which effectively takes him out of the running for a closer spot. There’s no way they’d go a month without their planned closer.

    #41420
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    858booyah
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    I’m not super stoked on Holland. This could be problematic down the road.

    The bullpen has to be rock solid with so many questions in the rotation.

    #41421
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    Holland looked like he was back to his old 2011-14 self for most of the year, until he blew up in August. I think he likely just ran out of gas following the 2016 TJ surgery. His August ERA was 13.50 while the rest were under 2.25. He pitched just once toward the end of Aug/beg of Sept and was solid the rest of the way, giving up just 4 hits total in September.

    Matheny/Maddux would have to be really careful with him most likely.

    #41426
    Brian Walton
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    Mo had said weeks ago they were going ease in Reyes in May, implying a bullpen assignment. Not sure who started the idea he could be closer day 1, but I don’t think that was ever under serious consideration.

    #41441
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    Onyxgem
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    If Holland needs taken care of with pitch counts or days in a row Matheny is the LAST coach he wants to have…

    #41443
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    858booyah
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    Except he wasn’t back to his old self. No one really knows if he’ll ever get back these bue one things for sure you’ll know if you’ve got the old Greg Holland or the 2017 1.4 whip Holland with a down tick in fastball.

    #41461
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    PadsFS
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    Take out August and what do you have?

    Onyxgem – Not that I agree at all that Matheny abuses pitchers, but isn’t that what Mike Maddux was brought in for?

    #42484
    Brian Walton
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    Boras went on the Tim McKernan show today to sell his clients’ virtues directly to Cardinals fans. Why not try to get them stirred up?

    Check Tim’s Twitter feed to read a number of Boras’ comments. Here is an example.

    From Scott Boras on @TMASTL: The #STLCards have limited closer options. If you want to be in the World Series, look at many of the recent World Series winners. These indexes indicate that if you want to be a World Champion, (you need to get a closer).

    https://twitter.com/tmckernan/status/955820089131008000

    I got a kick out of Keith Costas’ reply (Bob’s son):

    Each of the last seven WS champions have finished the postseason with a different closer than when the regular season began, but sure…come overpay my 32-year-old client whose ERA nearly quadrupled in the second half.

    https://twitter.com/keithcostas/status/955824648175878145

    #42509
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    Oquendo11
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    Love that ^^^ reply!!!

    #42519
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    PadsFS
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    Well, we know that Mozeliak has crated in the past to fans’ expectations so who knows, it may work.

    #42520
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    thejager
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    awesome

    #42522
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    gscottar
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    The Cardinals aren’t going to touch Holland unless his asking price drops to 2 years $24M or something like that. But if his asking price dropped that much there might be 20 teams trying to sign him.

    To me that is what is working against the teams. The big rich teams are now saying “no we will wait you out until your price drops”. But when the price drops then the amount of teams interested in that player more than doubles. In the end I think the players are going to win this stare down contest.

    #42547
    Brian Walton
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    gscottar, I was right there with you – until the end of the last sentence. I don’t think there is any doubt that the free agents who are major league quality will get major league jobs. But if these players have to settle for fewer years and/or less money than they expected, do they really win?

    Looks to me like there are some bargains to be had, and in those cases, it will be the owners coming out on top, IMO.

    #42549
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    mudville
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    I don’t know that anyone really comes out on top when this standoff is settled. I look at it as a market correction that should have occurred much sooner than now. It would take a very long-winded dialogue to determine what’s fair. Should we say that there is either deliberate or tacit collusion, and that the best players should continue to receive enormous sums of money since that is the precedent? Should more of the money be distributed among a much larger array of players, so that many more millionaires are created, instead of just a few? Should the owners just keep the extra cash since baseball teams are billion dollar investments, and it would seem that they should be entitled to get at least 3-5% on their investments?

    #42552
    Brian Walton
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    Definitely a thorny subject. Among Boras’ talking points shared with McKernan is his view that the owners are receiving a increasing share of the profits. Again, whether that is considered good or bad, right or wrong, depends a lot on how one looks at baseball as a business.

    I see the players as at a disadvantage currently. But if there is an ongoing problem, it will get worked out as part of the next collective bargaining agreement. Like them or not, the rules that are in place were agreed-to by all. There is no doubt in my mind that the increasing penalties for overspending have forced even the undisciplined teams to become disciplined – at least until Harper and Machado hit the open market! 😉

    #42555
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    gscottar
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    True the lesser free agents will probably get squeezed and have to settle for cheap one year deals but the big free agents will get paid. Some team will eventually zig while everyone else is zagging.

    #42556
    Brian Walton
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    I wish I had a dollar for every time Mo has spoken about being “opportunistic,” though in fairness perhaps we’ve heard it less often recently!

    #46048
    Brian Walton
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    One might guess that the loss of the first rounder could be as big of an issue as the money.

    #46052
    BlackHillsCard
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    After losing all of the picks last year, the Cards won’t going that route in back-to-back seasons.

    #46068
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    gscottar
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    After the dozens of comments made by the front office this spring stating their satisfaction with the pen as currently consrtucted it would be quite an about face to now sign Holland. I wish it would happen but I don’t see it happening.

    #46069
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    thejager
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    i think the Cubs could be the darkhorse

    Morrow is far from a sure thing and what are they really going to lose now that they signed Darvish?

    Morrow plus Holland for cheap i think fortifies their pen immensely

    #46119
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    gscottar
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    You can never rule out the Cubs but they are getting precariously close to the luxury tax. Adding Holland would make it very difficult to add someone at the deadline.

    I think the dark horse could be the Astros. They sure weren’t sold on Giles during the WS.

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