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I wonder if the cards have Marlins offered multiple options. Like Trade A you’ll get these prospects but early this amount of money, and Trade B…
And with today being the deadline to set 40 man rosters for the Rule 5 I wonder if we get a decision today. I read Boston might make an offer today.
As one would hope/expect, the Cards have discussed “a variety” of options with the Marlins. This per Goold.
A decision today seems very optimistic. Miami has no motivation to rush, nor does Stanton.
From Miami and SiriusXM’s Craig Mish:
Source : Giants/Marlins names exchanged in potential Stanton deal : (SF) 2B Joe Panik, Top Prospects SP Tyler Beede & OF Chris Shaw. (Mia) Stanton & 2B Dee Gordon.
He makes no mention of money and without that, there is no way to fully assess this. My guess is that if SF is offering three players, they want Miami to eat a considerable amount of salary, which we suspect the Marlins are trying to avoid.
Mish also has a rumor on the Cards’ offer:
Source : Cardinals as previously reported by @jonmorosi made offer to Marlins for Stanton. That proposal Included prospects, among them hard throwing top hurler Sandy Alcantara
It would be interesting to see the options the Redbirds have presented. The buzz is that the Marlins want to shed as much payroll as possible. How much would they be willing to eat for higher quality prospects.
Thus push for Stanton places some of the trades over the past six or seven months in perspective.
So far the teams mentioned most are the Cards, Giants, Red Sox, and Phillies, but at the end of the day I think he goes to the Dodgers. That is his hometown and where he really wants to go. They could use one more big bat to seal the deal on a World Series championship and they have all the money in the world. It just makes sense.
Now is it the type of deal Andrew Friedman would normally make? No, but he isn’t in Tampa anymore so he should stop acting like he is.
interesting to see the Panik and Gordon part of that deal SF gave
i think we could do something similar with Wong should the Fish be interested
the 40 man decisions have to happen by 8pm right?
I’d have to think the timing of them ove indicates we are still WANTING to protect a few more guys if possible and that there must be at least 2 guys from our 40man included in the deal so as to make room for at least 1 more spot
if Sandy is in there, I’d think maybe another starter from the 40 is in there…maybe Flaherty…then add in Grichuk or Bader or Sierra maybe….
I think Poncedeleon will be taken in the rule 5 despite the injury (he was awesome up to that point last year and was at AAA i dont want to lose him)
I also dont want to lose WisdomONeill, Gomber, Mercado….seem locks…and if we have 5 spots now we coudl still protect Ponce and Wisdom…but then we’d have no room for FA’s at all right?
we need a 3 for 1 or 4 for 2 or something deal
problem is…everyone knows this….including the Fish…
if it really is all about salary cutting…then just take on the whole salary and sweeten it with a good pitching prospect..
swap Wong and Gordon if it helps… and take Ziegler’s one year of salary too…maybe get them to eat liek half of Ziegler or something in the negotiating for giving up the good pitcher
Wisdom was passed over the previous 2 times. He’s not great and I don’t get the love obsession with him other he can hit crappy minor league pitching. I want to see Gomber, Mercado, O’Neill, and Poncedeleon protected. I don’t really care about Wisdom. Additionally, Mayers is a candidate to be outrighted off the roster.
I dont think Mayers is worth giving up on either…that first start has really tainted his image but i think he just needs to be completely converted to the pen and see what happens he has good stuff and has had good results
the “love” for Wisdom comes from that he hit 30HRs last year AND played really good defense at 3b…he seemed to turn a corner last year and we have precious few 3b’s in the system and not much power either…Mercado looked dead in the water before last year and everyone is fine locking him into a 40man spot (even though he is ANOTHER OFer that we already have plenty of)…and i want to lock in MErcado too…but Wisdom had a n amazing last year too… no one knows if Wisdom can hit MLB hitters so saying he “ONLY” hits “CRAPPY” minor league pitching as a negative is misleading and bias driven IMO…
I would rather see Voit come off if someone is coming off the 40man as i think Wisdom could take his spot as big bat corner infielder…except he has a a great cannon at 3b and good glove too…
So, the Cardinals reportedly offered up Sandy Alcantara, while the Giants went after both Stanton & Gordon and offered up Joe Panik, Tyler Beede & Chris Shaw
beede and Shaw are 2 of the top 3 Giants prospects (Arroyo being #1 and omitted)
not dealing Arroyo and still wanting money off should signal IMO that Reyes is off the table in a deal where we take on more money…maybe not even Weaver
I think we are trying to not give up Flaherty Weaver or Reyes….in case we cant find another SP in case Waino is done… still taking on GOrdon AND Stanton and Ziegler makes a lot of sense to me…
maybe the Marlins wont eat Stanton’s contract but maybe they will eat some of Ziegler or Gordon’s?
Im not a fan of swapping Wong for Gordon…and Ziegler is borderline what we are looking for… BUT both would provide worth for the money we are taking on in roles we coudl use…
Gordon at the top of the lineup instead of Carp (who goes to supersub mode) followed by Pham and Stanton is pretty impressive and dynamic…
Ziegler while not a closer option might be a late inning guy we want that coudl pair with a lesser bullpen option like Nicasio to form a strong back end even if it has no obvious head as CLOSER…though Ziegler combined with a Colome deal woudl be pretty nice in fortifying the backend
If i feel like i have a legitimate shot at young controllable good SP like Stroman or Archer i think i get a bit looser with the level of SP i offer up for Stanton
if we snagged Stanton, Gordon, and Ziegler….then worked a trade for Archer and Colome…(probably starting with Reyes and Kelly in that deal…Archer is what we want Reyes to be, and Kelly is replaceable IMO but valuable)… woudl make this offseason pretty darned amazing…
Still….the Giants seem to be thinking they can offer Panik 2-3 in their system and not Arroyo AND not taking on as much money as a means to convincing the Fish… I think it is a good tactic but i think we can still best it when push comes to shove…
FLaherty Wong Diaz…maybe throw in a guy like Helsey to put it over the top… even if that is TOO much it wouldnt cripple us in depth or quality…we have a lot more options depending on what the Fish want
Wisdom didn’t turn a corner. He just had his peak season. He still hit terrible with a very poor batting average and k rate. I’m sick of seeing the love obsession of guys like Grichik.
BHC- you say you are sick of people talking about Wisdom? People wonder if Wisdom coulkd be a decent bench guy with some pop who plays good defense for 3B.Where`s the obsession? Obsession is drooling over Poncedeleon who is only six months younger that Wisdom and has only just gotten a partial year in AAA ( injury) and has a high BB rate with a very average K rate.Nothing to see here folks ,move on.Nothing Poncedeleon has done jumps out IMHO.He is another average aged arm in AAA that the Cards do have a bunch of RHP talent that has passed Poncedeleon by.
Wisdom is what he is.Lots of strikeouts with power and good defense.That said i doubt Wisdom or PDL is protected.Ponce has been pretty fantastic since he started with us
https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=ponced001dan
he is a bit older than the other prospects..at 25… but could be a good short term option if healthy…he started off brilliantly last year and even if a team thought they coudl get him right in a year…they might be able to snag him for a reliever option…or even snag him and put him on the DL immediately as he recovers from the head issue if they are concerned at all
I disagree Jager.I don`t get too excited about Poncedeleon.I see a serviceable minor league arm so far.Not a lot of difference to me between him and Arturo Reyes.Do you see a team stashing Pone on a MLB roster all season? It could happen but ? I think Wisdom has a good shot at being picked by a AL team needing a backup 3B/bench bat. Seattle,Toronto,TB,KC,Baltimore,SD,Pitt,Philly,Texas,LAA.
i do see POnce being snagged…if for no other reason than knowing they could throw him on the 60 day DL whenever the soonest time they could and no one would bat an eye as he is coming off that head injury…then when he comes back he could slide into a long reliever or spot starter role…
There are a lot of teams i think that would love a shot at serviceable backend starter arm…screams SD all over it…they dont have 5 good guys and with the way the DL is used now Poncedelon in a pen could allow for guys to go down to AAA and come up while he just picks up a few innings here and there…. compared ot other guys in our stable of arms he is overlooked but he has shown solid lines and progression at every step..
i definitely dont see him as Arturo…but i see ARturo potentially getting snatched up too
How about something like Stanton, Gordon and Ziegler for Wong, Grichuk, Sandy A and Woodford. Then Miami pays 2M per year the next 3 years, and if he opts in for the final 7 they pay 4M per year?
that’s a pretty nice deal…we take on a lot of salary and lose a good young guy like Wong who had a good year last year…
i still think we’d have to offer up another good youngster SP… they need ready to start starters…i just dont think Sandy is ready to go yet…maybe you offer Hudson aND Sandy…or Hudson and Gomber…and take out Woodford…
so many options really…hard to know how much we WANT the fish to take off and how much they are willing to eat (If any)…makes it hard to consider what we shoudl offer
Looks like the Rule 5 thing has passed so I’m guessing that Stanton and the Marlins won’t make up their minds until after Thanksgiving…
Saw an article on msn about someone from Sportsnaut was saying that the Giants are the favorites to land Stanton, that the two teams have had “deep discussions” about it, but the article points out that if the Giants trade for Stanton that at least one of their current stars would have to be traded or face a big fine. So who knows how reliable and such that site is, then again I saw articles saying that Stanton didn’t want a trade to the Cards and yet the team took a trade offer from us so who knows…
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