Cooperstown Class of 2021

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  • #152480
    Brian Walton
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    #152481
    Brian Walton
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    #152482
    Brian Walton
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    #152486
    1982 willie
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    To be honest, I feel it’s all a little bit of a joke. While i guess you can argue whether shilling belongs in the hall, I think he has a point. Also all this stuff over bonds and clemens. I used to be against them being in but heck when I see mlb itself disrespecting the game by trying to have a universal dh and putting runners on at second, 7 inning games, I say let all those guys that qualify in, their cheating is a far less transgression than what I mentioned.

    #152488
    BlackHillsCard
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    The 14 writers who submitted blank ballots have disgraced themselves.

    #152495
    Onyxgem
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    Blank ballots are just as bad as the idiots who didn’t vote Schilling only because of politics…

    #152512
    gscottar
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    I don’t understand why blank ballots are a problem. If there is no one who you think should be voted in then why should you be pressured to vote for someone who you don’t think is worthy? Peer pressure? So fans will have something to talk about on a hot July day in Cooperstown? The HOF should be about quality, not quantity. This was a weak class. It had a bunch of good but not great players combined with several cheaters and those with very questionable integrity.

    The real problem is anonymous ballots. Voters shouldn’t be afraid to attach their names to their ballots and be prepared to defend their selections or non-selections.

    #152513
    Brian Walton
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    Why submit a blank ballot – other than to decrease the chances of the candidates? Why not just not send in the ballot at all? That hurts no one.

    In a given year, there are many more non-submitted ballots than blank ones sent in. That is the best way to handle it, IMO.

    Otherwise, the blank ballot is almost as bad as the Jeff Kent-only ballots, as they both directly hurt the other candidates on the slate.

    Anonymous ballots is another distinct problem. Simply put, the BBWAA does not want to get into policing the members of their fraternity, even though it is an obvious need. Instead, they let them hide if they so choose.

    While going on at the same time is the continued exclusion of non-BBWAA members of the baseball community who may be far more qualified to vote.

    Think about the reality that respected individuals like Vin Scully, Bob Costas and so many others have never been allowed to cast a Hall of Fame ballot.

    #152516
    gscottar
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    Why submit a blank ballot – other than to decrease the chances of the candidates? Why not just not send in the ballot at all? That hurts no one.

    I guess if a voter really felt that no one in that class deserved to get in then they should send in the blank ballot to make sure it factored into the calculations.

    But they should be required to attach their name to it.

    #152525
    kscardfan
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    Politics should have nothing to do with it. Barely 200 wins and no CY. Thats where I look. Really good Pitcher. Not HOF caliber imo. Waters it down more. He uses politics excuse to cover the fact he wasn’t quite good enough.

    #152528
    stlcard25
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    Politics should have nothing to do with it. Barely 200 wins and no CY. Thats where I look. Really good Pitcher. Not HOF caliber imo. Waters it down more. He uses politics excuse to cover the fact he wasn’t quite good enough.

    3 second place finishes and a 4th in the era of Pedro, Big Unit and Clemens. It’s difficult to win awards when you’ve got 3 of the most dominant pitchers ever hogging them all.

    I’d disagree that he would water the Hall down. He’d be solidly average to above average of the Hall of Fame pitching staff.

    #152532
    GameCard
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    Curt Schilling absolutely should have been elected to the HOF. Left-wing voters are disgraceful.

    #152540
    gscottar
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    But it is ok to recommend trading Flaherty because of his political views?

    #152553
    mudville
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    If Flaherty’s political views bother some fans enough that they stop following the Cardinals or buying tickets, they will have to trade him. In short, they can’t pay him if the fans aren’t, in one way or another, giving the organization their money. All of the other arbitration eligible players settled with the Cardinals for an amount that appears to be favorable to the Cardinals, presumably because of the hard times of the past year. But not this hateful punk.

    kscardfan – You must be asleep at the wheel. Wins don’t mean anything anymore because ‘there are so many uncontrollable factors that come into play regarding wins.’ Try arguing your point. You’ll find out what I mean right away. Personally, I like pitchers that want to pitch 9 innings and notch a win for themselves and their team, rather than a pitcher that thinks he belongs in the rotation because he can pitch 5 innings, or feels like he’s carrying the bullpen if he can pitch 6 innings, or thinks he’s a HOF candidate if he can pitch 7 innings. But that idea is nothing but a relic from the past.

    #152554
    mudville
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    GameCard – I know it’s hard to do, and that you’re passionate about you point of view, but you’ve got to keep you politics out of this forum. Think about it. If you and others start raising the ire of one another, this forum becomes a free-for-all, and is thereby unsafe to come to, and is effectively destroyed.

    #152557
    gscottar
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    If Flaherty’s political views bother some fans enough that they stop following the Cardinals or buying tickets, they will have to trade him. In short, they can’t pay him if the fans aren’t, in one way or another, giving the organization their money. All of the other arbitration eligible players settled with the Cardinals for an amount that appears to be favorable to the Cardinals, presumably because of the hard times of the past year. But not this hateful punk.

    So attendance may drop every fifth day?

    #152563
    Cardinals27
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    Looking forward to next years Hall Of Fame include ARod’s and Big Papi’s in as first year eligible. I imagine there will be a lot of angst about ARod being inducted, but would think Ortiz would get ln. I was thinking several drop off the list in 2022. I would like to think Rolen may have a chance, particularly in 2023.

    #152564
    blingboy
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    I would have voted for Clemmens but that’s it. No roid guys. No guys who ran up there stats DHing after they couldn’t play anymore, if they ever could. No Hall of Pretty Darn Good guys, which only diminishes the honor shown to the best of the best. I also agree with 1982 Willie about the sorry state of the game.

    #152569
    Brian Walton
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    bb, for what it is worth, Clemens is considered a “roids guy” by many. That is almost certainly why he isn’t already in. His votes annually track almost identical to Bonds. It is not coincidence.

    #152570
    Brian Walton
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    #152571
    kscardfan
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    My HOF is for the elite only. I don’t like the fact great players make the HOF when they arent on the same level as a true HOF’er. I will use Jim Rice as an example. Is he on the same level as Willie Mays? Mays is a HOF’er. Rice is a great player. I consider HOF’ers a step above great. Just me.

    #152572
    Cardinals27
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    I have a different view and value defense greatly. Ozzie Smith, Scott Rolen, and Jim Edmonds are were some of the best all time defenders at their respective positions. Ozzie was the greatest defensive shortstop of all time, Rolen was my pick for best defensive third basemen of all time, but I would include Brooks Robinson and Mike Schmidt in the best trio, with Kenny Boyer next. (I never saw much of Robinson or any Boyer, but they both own many Gold Gloves). Edmonds is in the top 3 to 5 of time in my book. I really appreciate how much that great defense saves runs and wins more games. And Rolen was one of the best baserunners of all time.

    Piazza hit a lot of home runs, and a great hitter, but was a terrible defensive catcher.

    IMO all of these factors should matter when voting for the HOF.

    #152573
    stlcard25
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    My HOF is for the elite only. I don’t like the fact great players make the HOF when they arent on the same level as a true HOF’er. I will use Jim Rice as an example. Is he on the same level as Willie Mays? Mays is a HOF’er. Rice is a great player. I consider HOF’ers a step above great. Just me.

    If Mays is the standard to attain, then the Hall would be pretty threadbare. While I get what you are saying and think that Rice is a guy I’d leave out too, Schilling sits between Pete Rose and Joe Dimaggio on the career WAR list. He’s in good company as one of the best to ever play the game (that’s 65th all time, FWIW. Mays is #5, Rice #339 on the list).

    #152588
    gscottar
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    As long as the integrity language remains in the HOF voting procedures there is going to be subjectivity in the voting. Not everything will fit on a spreadsheet.

    #152594
    kscardfan
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    Mays should one of the standards if you are comparing HOF’ers. Shouldn’t this be apples vs apples, not apples vs raisins.

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