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Mays should one of the standards if you are comparing HOF’ers. Shouldn’t this be apples vs apples, not apples vs raisins.
Mays should one of the standards if you are comparing HOF’ers. Shouldn’t this be apples vs apples, not apples vs raisins.
What I’m saying is that if only players as great as Willie Mays get in the Hall, the Hall may as well not exist. You ever been to Cooperstown? No one is gonna go there to see a museum about the 10 players who could even sniff the kind of greatness that Mays had.
You won’t get any argument from me that players with <50 career WAR and only a handful of seeaons where they were one of them game’s best players shouldn’t be in the Hall. I don’t think Rice belongs. I do think that players like Rolen and Schilling, Joe Dimaggio and Pete Rose do belong on the merits of their play. They were some of the best players in the game for long periods of time and have both the in game awards and sabermetric stats to back that up. I don’t think a Hall of Fame that honors the top 1% of players (which would be about 200 of the ~20,000 who have played) is a big deal.
Having lower tier guys does not diminish the hall of fame in any way. Like some have said, if you are only honoring the greatest of the great, then don’t bother. Lots of great players that obviously weren’t the greatest to play but deserve recognition.
Speaking at SABR's 50th anniversary program, Hall of Fame president Tim Mead said the Hall has no intention of removing the character clause from voting criteria.
— David Laurila (@DavidLaurilaQA) January 30, 2021
Here’s the baseball HOF character clause:
According to the Hall of Fame’s election rules, “voting shall be based upon the player’s record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.”
If the voters will value the positive side of character that the player has brought to the game, as well as his stellar accomplishments on the field, Adam Wainwright should one-day be a first ballot inductee into the baseball HOF.
I agree with you there mudville. I think they really only consider those things when they think a player is on the negative side of those things in their mind. Having great character and sportsmanship along with being a great leader doesn’t really mean anything if it isn’t attached to great stats. Funny how that is.
The hands-on, humanitarian stuff he does should count for the HOF. In the overall scheme of things, that matters more than the numbers.
Humanitarian efforts are to be applauded, but I do not think they should override results on the field for Cooperstown consideration.
The Roberto Clemente Award is given out annually for this very reason. There are many Hall of Famers among the honorees but also many other others who do not fit in the Hall of Fame. Players like Carlos Carrasco, Paul Konerko, Tim Wakefield, Jamie Moyer, Al Leiter, Harold Reynolds, etc.
I imagine the fans of their respective teams revered them, too, but that doesn’t make them Hall of Famers.
Likely what killed Wainwright’s chances were his numerous injury-plagued years in the prior decade. His stats just aren’t good enough. He will, of course, get a red jacket as soon as eligible and will be recognized as a Cardinals team Hall of Famer the rest of his life. For that, he is clearly deserving.
Reminder that Larry Walker and Ted Simmons are among the greats being inducted today. Scott Rolen’s time may come later…
And years later when 3B Scott Rolen was briefly with the #bluejays he told a Toronto Star columnist that Larry Walker in that year with the #Cardinals was the best teammate that he had ever played with.
— Richard Griffin (@RGriffBaseball) September 8, 2021
Anyone remember this?
Ted Simmons did not mess around at the plate… or behind the plate. Congrats, Hall of Famer! #stlcards pic.twitter.com/5ftVTklHSk
— Tom Ackerman (@Ackerman1120) September 8, 2021
Here’s Ted’s speech.
I don’t remember that brawl with the Cubs.
One of my first memories of Simmons was listening to the radio one night in the 70’s I believe. The game was at Dodger Stadium and the umpire had been squeezing the Cardinal pitcher all night. Simmons comes to the plate later in the game. He belts a homer and slowly rounds the bases before saying something to the ump as he crossed home plate. He immediately got ejected. I remember Mike Shannon getting a kick out of it.
Watched some of the HOF programming on the mlb app this morning, including Simba’s speech. Very eloquent, and heart warming. He represents the Cardinal organization well, and sent a tribute to all of the clubs he was involved with.
He speaks highly of Gorge Kissel, who of course tutored all of the Cardinal farmhands coming through the system for a couple of decades or more.
Larry Walker is a great one as well. With those two and Derek Jeter, plus Marvin Miller who made a greater impact on the modern mlb structure than just about anyone, that is an impressive class.
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