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You are right, bling. They are going into the season with opportunity for the youngsters to show what they have. In an ideal world, more will come through than not, making trades unnecessary. Ideally.
I don’t brush any comments off. That’s a personal comment as you’ve stated before. We all know that the major trades the Cardinals have made have pretty much come out of the blue. As I said, they don’t show their cards. I just see no reason why they won’t raise their sights this summer and trade for a higher level starter. A guy who’s going to get pretty expensive on a lower budget team. I can’t say that they will, however, just like others can’t say that they won’t.
Because they value their prospects much higher than other teams it seems, that was 100% on display with the whole Oak offseason talks for their catcher. Plus when was the last time the Cards when out and traded for a true Ace SP? It won’t happen again they will go for lower hanging fruits and hope to get lucky…..just like they are going into the season hoping all their big question marks all of a sudden turn to gold…it just unlikely to happen
Nothing is unlikely to happen, just as nothing is likely to happen. Noone knows. But having a lot of pitching depth is nice.
I my opinion, the thought of “Building a team that can win the World Series” is a flawed argument in today’s MLB environment. The Cardinals philosophy of building a contender that can compete in the post season is a sound platform. That is what every organization strives for.
In looking over the last 10 seasons, only two of them featured each league’s best team in the World Series, 2020 and 2013. Every other year at least one, and sometimes both league’s representatives were not the club with the best winning percentage.
That does not mean our club could make some moves to improve areas of need. But I have no qualms with a philosophy of contending, and then seeing if we are one of the clubs that gets hot in post season.
Cannot comment on the whole “conservative midwest” and how that translates to a ball club. I think that is probably unrelated. But to reiterate, in today’s climate every team is built, or are attempting to be on a track towards being in contention to win their division. There is no real way to say a team is “building a World Series winner”, because once you get to post season and short series, there is much more randomness involved. The better team is often not the best post season team.
It is quite the opposite bikemike that’s exactly what teams are doing. They are going all in during the season they think they have the best shot at it. The outrageous amount of money being spent show just that. The teams that have little to no shot won’t spend….because they don’t have a chance. Teams have done that once they win some like KC and the Cubs tear down after such win. Right the Cardinals model have been less than stellar in the post season. Maybe that will change in 2023 but I doubt it. Quantity of pitching rarely translates into quality pitching.
The Cardinal business model is well suited to turn out consistent winning baseball teams. That can’t be argued nor should it be taken for granted. A lot of fans would like to have that. Having said that it is also true that the Cardinals are one of the most iconic teams in MLB history. We have won more WS championships that any other NL team. More than the Dodgers, Giants, Phillies, Reds, etc… Only the Yankees have more.
I think this is why most Cardinal fans expect their ownership and front office to be more aggressive than they are. We haven’t won a WS since 2011 and haven’t been in one since 2013. This is not a franchise that should settle for division championships. We should be competing for WS championships. Yes, there is some randomness in a short playoff series where the better team might not win but like I said the other day, basically you are playing the odds. The better team you build the better your odds of overcoming the randomness. We tend to build a good team but then stop short of taking that extra step, which is frustrating to a lot of fans. No reasonable Cardinal fan is expecting the team to start spending wildly like Cohen and the Mets because that is reckless but I don’t think it should be too much to ask to take another step or two before the season begins instead of trying to pull off a big coup in July after sqaundering the first four months of the season.
bikemike said:
The Cardinals philosophy of building a contender that can compete in the post season is a sound platform. That is what every organization strives for.
I suspect the nuances of that statement are not taken by all the same way. Everyone in the playoffs “competes”. The reality is that the Cardinals have NOT been competitive in the playoffs. Evidence: One series win in the last eight years.
If you change the words “compete in” to “reach”, then I would agree. However, I do not agree with the second sentence. All 30 organizations say they want to win the World Series, but their actions are very different.
The Cardinals strategy as I have heard it from them is to reach the playoffs and hope to get hot in October. That works for them, but some other organizations strive for more. Some followers of the Cardinals want them to strive for more.
Well, it’s only late January and certainly not too late for the Cardinals to make a significant trade. One of the biggest trades in Cardinal history was completed as near to the regular season as in late February. Additionally, it involved a starting pitcher who would have a huge impact for quite some time. On February 25th, the Cardinals traded SP’er Steve Carlton to the Phillies for SP’er Rick Wise. I’m going to go now, before I get beat up…Haha!
Carlton was traded over a salary dispute. That is handled very differently in today’s game than it was 50 years ago. Players going to arbitration are the only ones who don’t have 2023 salaries already set. Take a look at the players on the other teams who are in that situation. Maybe there is another future Carlton in there! Can never say never when hope is involved!
But the problem is the Cards have NOT competed at all in the post season they just get escorted out of ir early every year. They build a team that can win a very weak division that is it..
Good comments by all, and a great discussion. As Cardinal fans, one good thing we have going for us is the topic is the frustration of not doing better in post season.
Out here in this old cow town I reside, fans would love to have this discussion! They have similar thoughts about “cheap” ownership, but do not have the related on-field success track record.
BW…Yeah, I was led to believe that ’72 dispute involved just a bit more money than it takes to fuel up my truck…Haha! At any rate, yeah maybe a HOF lefty’s out there somewhere. I keep looking for him, but it’s getting to be a genuine rarity to see a group of youngsters walking down the street in the summertime carrying their mitts on the way to the local diamond. All they they ever have with them are their phones…Times sure have changed.
Cant sleep..
I for one am not sold on the fact that these contract inflation rates are here to stay. Def rising long term but this could be a blip.
You have half a dozen teams honestly setting their own market for marquee talent year in and year out. All it takes are one or two teams getting burned and one jumps out- then another..and the market is reset. Not saying that will or wont happen but it literally just did a few years ago.
Might be of some comfort to long term cards fans- definitely not to nolan arenado
"I'm going to do it my way."
Exclusive at ESPN+: A 1-on-1 conversation with New York Mets owner Steve Cohen, who talks about the team's record payroll, why other owners need to look in the mirror and what's next for the most fascinating team in baseball. https://t.co/pE9jZFR7FF pic.twitter.com/BIiwWrny28
— Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) February 6, 2023
Just what baseball needs. A hedge fund guy running a MLB team. Win at all costs and destroy the industry.
Did George Steinbrenner destroy the game? The sky didn’t fall 50 years ago when one owner drove significant change and it won’t fall now, either. But the fraternity is being shaken up again for sure. Change is hard… and even harder for those who were cozy with how things have always been.
There is usually only one beginning of the end, but not in baseball. They lowered the mound and they tore down Shea Stadium. I wonder what Mr. Moneybags charges Joe Sixpack for a hotdog?
Every year, a company called Team Marketing Report publishes the Fan Cost Index. They do their best to fairly assess and compare the cost for a group of four to attend an MLB game. They include average ticket price, parking, food and drink, etc..
For 2022, the Cards are 11th with an FCI of $265.18. You may be surprised to learn the Mets were 13th at $258.95. Pretty interesting that it costs more for a family to go to Busch than to Citi Field.
The top five are Red Sox ($385.37), Cubs, Astros, Yankees and Dodgers.
There goes that theory…
I’m not sure a cost in the area of $250 is accurate and I won’t even take the price of a ticket into consideration. A hot dog and a Coca Cola X 4 is probably in the area of $50 in itself. And those kids are going to want more than one. I can destroy four or five of them by the 4th inning…Haha! In addition to that, they’ve got all kinds of culinary fare at the ballpark these days that costs as much as a 5 star restaurant located near the Champs de Elysees…If you drink beer, you can run up a lofty tab in no time at all. Parking is $20 to $25. A low end souvenir or two is probably at least $20 to $30. I’d have to guess that it’s a stretch to say a family of four could work it’s way out of the inning with $250. Dad had better bring more money than that…
The idea that a better fan experience “destroys the industry” is completely absurd. If you read the article, Cohen talks about following the Dodgers’ model of spending until the farm can supply more of what the big league team needs. He also speaks of working to benefit the community surrounding the team with his projects (something I’m sure BDW would agree with) and improving the team and fan experience by any means possible. Now, you may not be a fan of Mr Cohen, but more owners like him who are not entirely about making extra money but rather building a winning team would be great for the game.
In fact, I’ll say the primary reason that MLB is so far behind NFL and soon to be behind the NBA as well is due to the lack of more complete revenue sharing and how it discourages spending and competitiveness.
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