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St. Louis is not Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, San Diego, etc. which are aggressive and forward thinking cities. Being aggressive and forward thinking sometimes entails high risk, high reward. St. Louis is not only in the conservative Midwest, it’s also a conservative city in the conservative Midwest. It’s risk adverse. It’s not Chicago. People who come here say that it’s not an exciting environment, but that it’s a very good place to raise a family. Solid community. That’s why a number of Cardinal players have stayed here to raise their families after they retire as players. Native St. Louisans have an expression – “Good old St. Louis”. For example, as far as risk taking, A-B wasn’t a buyer of companies, they were a seller. Same with Ralston Purina, 7 UP, McDonnell Douglas, Monsanto, Mercantile Bank, Mark Twain Bankshares, etc.
So why do some fans think that BDW (who was raised in St. Louis and lived in Cincinnati for many years) will all of the sudden change into an aggressive, high risk taking person? A guy like the Mets Cohen? Sorry. It’s the “Good old Cardinals”. A team that is tradition laden, solid as a rock, and steady as she goes.
Most St. Louis fans enjoy the game for what it is – entertainment and recreation. They’re very knowledgeable and courteous, though. They enjoy the nuances of the game and are happy for every win. No doubt, they’re also passionate about their team. They file out of Busch with huge smiles on their faces. They aren’t every day thinking about whether it’s constructed as a World Series team. They aren’t frustrated and gnashing their teeth because Mo didn’t spend a fortune in the off season. They actually like being the underdog to those glitzy Dodgers, Yankees, Mets, etc. They’re quite happy with some legacy players and some bright eyed home grown rookies. With a team that has a chance in October, but didn’t sell the farm to buy the opportunity. Fans understand an organization that doesn’t get too far out over their skis and risk crashing. They want a winning team every season that has a chance to go deep into October if everyone is healthy and the team gets hot at the right time. And of course a team that can beat the heck out of the Cubs.
BDW understands the fan base. He was raised as a part of that fan base. He’s still a part of that fan base. And most of the fan base also understands BDW. Because they’re just like him.One thing to keep in mind is that the Yankees, Mets, Cubs, Giants and the Dodgers have intercity rivals and need to compete for the fans summer sports entertainment dollars. Where I am in NY that is so very evident but the Yanks will always have the upper hand…. same with the Cubs, Giants and the Dodgers. The White Sox, Angels, A’s and the Mets will likely be playing second fiddle for many years to come but they will have to keep the fans at least somewhat interested to stay afloat. With the new owner’s injection of $$$ this year the Mets will make some serious noise and have to be considered WS material. That will keep the turnstiles spinning for them and they’ll get a fair share of the fan’s interest and dollars.
ps…. I can remember going to Shea years ago and being able to move down to field boxes with no problems. That won’t be the case with the Met’s new spending habits. Maybe had the Brownies stayed around the Cards would have a better team…. ha ha ha ha 🙂
Bccran…I agree with some of your observations however, I’ve never considered my favorite team to be an underdog of either the Yankees, Mets or Dodgers. Quite conversely, I view all three of those teams as underdogs to the St. Louis, Cardinals. I firmly base that view on the fact that during my lifetime, the Redbirds have enjoyed numerous triumphs during both regular and post-season head to head play. Those teams and their fans are always frightened to play the Redbirds when Oct. comes around.
From a business standpoint, if the money gusher isn’t broke, it doesn’t make any sense to tamper with the business model.
I don’t agree with this take. If you are willing to take losing, then you aren’t any better than the loser cub fans and their organization. All cardinal fans I know dont feel any of this nonsense. Sure they are always cardinal fans but that doesn’t mean they are a fan of current ownership. If the Cardinals had been owned by one family their whole existence, this may have some merit but they haven’t been. The fact the owner is from st Louis means nothing. He’s still just a greedy person doing whatever best lines his wallet. I do agree there are casual fans that accept losing but I feel they should go over and become cub fans. Now I know some will talk about their win loss record and point out a consistently in winning but in the end you should be trying to win the last game that is played that season, not just be satisfied being somewhat close but yet so far away. No one is saying they should spend like some of the other teams, but they can and should do better. Also this notion that st Louis is one set way is rediculous. They have an awful lot of killings there, that’s not a Midwestern value. Just remember this team doesn’t have any real major success hence pujols leaving to go to angels. Sure they had some great years right after but a lot of that was built off of before. After that not a whole lot. The Cardinals have historically been a great franchise but they earned that by winning championships not just by getting there. I consider this version of the Cardinals under this ownership more in line with the braves of the 80s and 90s. A good franchise but not a great one. Maybe unfair but it is the way it is.
Frankly I don’t think being in a conservative part of the country has anything to do with it. Those owners in NY, LA, Chicago, Philly, Boston and other cities are probably not wide eyed liberal people. They are conservative yet fiercely competitive and aggressive businessmen.
If the goal is to win division titles then the Cardinal business model won’t change, unless the Cubs continue to ramp up their spending, which could happen. But if the goal is to win a NL title or WS title then the Cardinal business model is going to continue to be severely tested. While it is technically true that the 2023 Cardinal payroll is higher than 2022 they have not kept up with the % payroll rise of their NL competitors. That is a fact. Can the Cardinal farm system make up for their lack of payroll? We shall see.
BDW wants to win the WS as much as anyone. But he’s not going to do crazy things. In one of the conversations I’ve had with him, I brought up 2 prospects that were at the A+ level. He told me what their strengths were and what they needed to work on.
He really does enjoy player development. That’s why if there’s a player that he likes, who’s worked hard to get to the upper levels, he doesn’t want to block him. If he can change positions, like Walker, he’ll make an exception. Like he did in getting Arenado. The Arenado deal was too good to pass up.What someone wants doesn’t really matter unless it is followed up with what it takes to achieve that goal.
I don’t doubt the owner wants to win a world series but that has nothing to do with it. The want to has to be combined with the willingness to put the work in to do bette. No one is saying spend crazy, I don’t know why that stuff is getting thrown around. Spend smart which the Cardinals aren’t doing, is the name of the game. Plus it isn’t always about money. Sometimes it’s being smart enough to get winning players.
Summary: Resistance to change in a changing game means you fall behind. I sat there this past weekend and heard it with my own ears. They are fine with being good enough to reach the playoffs and then take their chances. He brought the prior Cardinals title clubs down by saying they caught breaks as if somehow the most recent seasons were no different, except for a few breaks not caught here or there.
I respect the DeWitts and all they have done but they are falling behind and don’t seem to recognize it.
Bernie: Cardinals Owner Bill DeWitt Jr. Makes It Clear. He's In Charge, Dug In, and Resistant To Updating His Model. – Scoops https://t.co/3NijXHI9wM
— Bernie Miklasz (@miklasz) January 17, 2023
The Cardinals try to spend as smart as they can, willie. The people who are frustrated by the Cardinals never come up with any answers except they should spend more. Spend on hugely expensive free agents who want long term contracts that have no performance criteria. You say spend smarter. Give us some examples, please.
Brian – I heard it with my own ears too. What else could he say when other teams are signing guys to 10 year contracts for $300 million? The Cards are locked in to player development and making smart trades as necessary. And that’s not all that bad, is it?
They have won a total of one playoff series in the last eight years. That is concerning.
On the other hand, if getting to the postseason is the goal, they did it five times in that same period.
It is all in how you measure success. But the current model isn’t building teams that have a good chance of a deep playoff run. They are hoping to get lucky.
Another thoughtful article. As Frederickson states this payroll debate doesn’t have to be one extreme or the other. There is a third way.
BenFred: After fans holler and Cardinals brass defends, rotation still looks shaky up top https://t.co/4dchFCctMJ
— STLToday Sports News (@STL_SportsNews) January 20, 2023
I’m locked into rooting for Goldy, Arenado, Contreras and all the young power guys we have in the system, and also for guys like Flaherty (hope they extend him), Mikolas (hope they extend him) Graceffo, McGreevey, etc. Those are the guys who could take us deep into October. Not some prima donna who wants a zillion dollars over a zillion years.
The world is not as black and white as you paint it, bccran. Guys we have = good. Guys we don’t have = bad.
When BDW talks about getting lucky, he’s talking about all the players being healthy going into October and the team being hot. Those are the key elements.
What players are they “missing”, Brian? An “ace”?. Let’s see how Flaherty pitches in his contract year. Mikolas too. Before drawing any conclusions. BDW is a sage baseball man. He knows that everything has to fall into place just right for any team to win the WS. In other words, they have to get lucky at the right time.
Again, one playoff series win in the last eight years. That is the longest such stretch in this ownership’s tenure.
Good point, Brian. But it’s important to see what happened in those playoffs. Who was injured? What players were we lacking? Were we short on setup guys in the lineup? Were we short on middle of the order bats? Were we short on starters? Were we short on the back end of the bullpen? And who’s to say that they haven’t already made moves to correct most things getting Goldy, Arenado, and Contreras into the same lineup, and drafting a lot better? Maybe some of the fixes are taking hold and we’ll be a lot better in October than some people think. Plus more moves could be made before ST, during ST, and indeed throughout the first 2/3 of the season.
I’m not in agreement with the assertion that most of the Cardinal fan base understands Billy Jr. Nor are they “just like him.” To begin with, I’d have to guess that Billy Jr. probably has an available balance in his checking account that far exceeds that of mine and most other Redbird fans…Additionally, he’s always impressed me as taking on the look and mindset of the Peter Sellers character affectionately known as U.S. President, Merkin Muffley. I can only speak for myself, but I’d have to guess that not too many of us Redbird fans have either the qualifications or the desire to be President. Especially during the onset of Nuclear Armageddon…Those darn “doomsday machines” could most definitely place a genuine damper on our chances at a post-season berth…I’m not sure even Gibson could work his way out of that sort of trouble!
Per Cots:
Currently STL could spend 1.5mil more this winter and jump from 14th in opening day payroll to 12th.
Add 8mil and they rank 11th.
Add 13mil to the current payroll and they’re 10th.Ok? So we’re just splitting hairs getting back to a top 10 payroll. 13mil does not buy an ace, it’s elite reliever money.
Spend 20.5mil and we’re 8th in opening day payroll, currently.
20.5mil is Chris Bassitt on his 3/60 deal this winter, and he’s a SP2, and a very good one.Spend 27mil more, on an ace, and we’re 7th. That’s the current numbers.
So if you endorse adding an ace, you’re also endorsing the budget to go from 14th to 7th.Does Billy Jr. decide it’s time to offer up his investment for sale while he’s still with us, or does he hang on to it and allow his offspring to unload it as soon as he passes on and they take possession?
Spend 27mil more, on an ace, and we’re 7th. That’s the current numbers.
So if you endorse adding an ace, you’re also endorsing the budget to go from 14th to 7th.That is assuming the other teams remain static.
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