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Ok use the year before. Wainwright signed Jan 29th. Arenado acquired Feb 1st. Molina signed Feb 9th.
Here were some of the starters in 2022 –
Hicks
Naughton
Thompson
Liberatore
Oviedo
Woodford
PallanteAnd they still won 93 games. The starter in the first playoff game was a guy they picked up at the deadline. He did a great job, allowing only 2 hits.
It’s a jigsaw puzzle. Same with most teams.
All are acquisitions later than today. My comments have been “currently” as the contexxt with TBD by opening day.
It’s a long, long season. The roster at the start of the season won’t be the same roster as the one for the first round of the playoffs.
bccran said:
Very rarely does the team that’s preseason ranked the best team in MLB win it all. Just doesn’t work that way…
Houston won 106 games and was the AL favorite coming off their World Series loss in 2021. Once the Dodgers were eliminated, Houston was the World Series favorite and they delivered. Their payroll was eighth, about where the Cards had been (and should be). The $27 MM difference could have gone a long way.
Philly had a lot of new players and it took time to gel. Their payroll was fourth, $78 MM MORE than the Cards. I repeat, $78 MM. So what if they were the Wild Card? They had the horses.
Phillies record in 2022 after the trade deadline: 32-27.
Phillies last 20 regular season games in 2022: 7-13.Phillies deadline acquisitions:
Noah Syndergaard
David Robertson
Brandon Marsh
Edmundo SosaOK, JJ, It would be great if the Cards added another Waino, Arenado and Yadi in the upcoming days, but my reading is that they are pretty much done this offseason.
We will check back Opening Day to see what their payroll ranking will be. I will gladly eat my hat if they are anywhere near 10th. To reach 10th, assuming no one above them spends more, the Cards would need to spend $29 MM additional if I read Spotrac correctly. Pretty safe bet that is not happening.
BW, on page 1, I used Cots, and if STL had spent 13mil today, they’d be 10th right now. Opening day? TBD
What’s surprising to me is the boss of a Cardinals minors site wants more $ spent on outside players, which only blocks farmhands that have or will be debuting.
I don’t want another Dickerson to block our current outfielders. Or another DH type to block Yepez and Gorman.
Now if they want to add a quality proven reliever, I could care less about the VerHagen, Stratton journeyman types getting DFA’d.
They tried too hard at catcher but the FO already knew an ace wasn’t in the game plan, so why not i guess. But that’s roster construction decisions, not total $ spent, which seems to be your focus.
I thought Houston was the best team in the AL at the midway point of the ’22 regular season. When the post-season began, I was convinced no team in either the AL or NL possessed the talent of the Astros in all areas of the game. They reminded me of the Yankees of the late 90’s to early 00’s. I couldn’t detect a solitary weakness and still can’t. In my view they have a better than decent chance for a rerun. They may even prove to be better in ’23.
jj, thanks I missed that. That is half of Spotrac’s difference. But I would be very surprised if they spend $13 MM more. After listening to everyone at WWU weekend, I walked away thinking they are not looking to add anyone.
To the personal comments, I focus on prospects, but their ultimate purpose is to feed World Championships. I do not want the Cards to spend more money on role players, either. They do an excellent job developing them but they haven’t developed a superstar for 20 years. They need more than two core players and both the ones they have came from the outside, acquired primarily in return for prospects. (Which I agreed with.) Of course. once they are here, they receive big salaries. (Further, Goldy is 35 this year and Arenado will be 32. Their window will not last forever.)
Coming into 2023, improvement would have to occur by upgrading the roster. They improved at catcher, but that is it for now. At this point, it does not feel like enough to change the October outcome.
I also think the Cardinals were the better team than the Phillies and that PHI got lucky to reach the WS. What was so incredibly disappointing about the early Cardinal exit was the manner in which it transpired. The Cardinal bats obviously disappeared at the most inopportune time, but they actually out-hit Philly with a team BA of .185 to .158. Anyone who witnessed that first game saw a disaster unfold that was directly related to countless instances of bad decisions and outright negligence on the part of the Redbird field manager and his coaching staff. One of the most glaring instances took place prior to first pitch when the line-up cards were handed to the HPU. Sorry for saying so, but I’ll never forget the look and feel of that game taking on the atmosphere of a veritable lunatic asylum as the entire series of events unfolded while I watched that game being thrown into the proverbial fire. At any rate, normally I’m consoled by the thought of a pretty good regular season, but not that time.
I don’t place too much importance on the amount of a team’s payroll as it relates to the chances of the ultimate return of a WS Championship. I’m convinced that a team can funnel the lion’s share of money to a handful of key components and couple that up with young, hungry talent from within to get to the promised land. I’d say the key is to make wise decisions and not be in such a big hurry to throw too much money at that proverbial beauty as soon as she saunters up to the bar. In that sense, I think the Cardinals do a pretty good job.
I like a team’s chances of getting lucky in the playoffs better when it has a couple of reliable top line starters who can pitch 2 games of a 3 game series, or 3 games of a 5 game series, or 4 games of a 7 game series. Those types can make even MVP caliber hitters bat around .100 or less over a short series. Otherwise, you probably have to rely on luck to get lucky.
Yeah, I do to, but who’s out there? Hopefully, when the ’23 regular season ends, the Cardinals will have both a post-season berth and a couple of SP’ers in the 5-man who have established themselves as reliable top line starters in the form of featuring a nice performance over the course of the 162 game regular season schedule. It’s possible. It’s also possible that the evil baseball gypsies see to it that a couple of R or L arms scatter in FL during ST…Haha! It ain’t funny but I have to laugh to keep from crying.
The player we are missing today is Sandy Alcantara. We signed him as an amateur, developed him through the minors, and debuted him.
It’s not always about $ spent. Gallen would be very welcomed too.
Last year in post season the Cardinals’ three highest paid guys didn’t do squat. That was NA, Goldy and Waino. I think the smartest place to spend money would be on a proven field manager.
All the pieces are in place to have a good season. I’m kind of surprised at Brian’s skepticism. He’s always been upbeat about the Cardinals. And especially about the young prospects. He seems disappointed about some things said at Winter Warm Up. I understand that. But if the Cardinals were to add another player right now, where would that player play? A starting pitcher? We already have 6 of those. Can’t stack bodies on top of bodies.
Outfield? We’re stacked there. Infield? We’re stacked there too. Bullpen? We’re deep there and in addition have 6 guys who can spot start. So if you want to increase payroll, what are your thoughts?I think Mo is skittish about trading away young players and promising prospects right now. If he won’t move them, then he won’t block them.
To clarify, I do not expect (or want) further additions this offseason. There are positions at which they could have upgraded earlier but did not, other than catcher, which was a glaring hole to be filled. The difference-making free agents are now gone and the trade market has been difficult.
IMO, the 2023 Cards are capable of repeating last season’s 93 wins and division title. However, I do not feel they have enough to win it all in October. I sense their business model is falling behind the times and their declining post-season results and weakening relative payroll position are indicators of this. Call that skeptical if you want, but I consider it realistic. Saying any more would be repetitive.
P.S. I agree with your last post, bling. That is a factor. And when you close off the trade market, it leaves free agency as your only alternative. And the prices there escalated beyond what fit within the team’s business model. During WWU, Mo acknowledged they may need to “recalibrate” based on the changing dynamics across the game. Some others have already recalibrated, apparently.
I still don’t see where the Cardinals can or should add a player until they see what they have, Brian. Mikolas and Flaherty have top of the rotation potential. Let’s see how they do. There are decent backup starters. The outfield is deep, and Walker is on the way. The infield is deep, with MVP types at both corners. We now have a possible All Star at catcher. The guys you’ve been tracking are coming on – Edman, Carlson, Nootbaar, Gorman, Donovan, Yepez, Burleson, Walker, Gomez, etc. Isn’t the picture pretty rosy? Rosier than in recent years?
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