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bccran
Greedy? You’re from the northeastern part of the United States, Brian. What did you see on your trip downtown when you flew in here for Winter Warm up? It’s pretty sad. So those who don’t reside in this community will accuse the DeWitts of being greedy by building BBV. The people who live here are delighted that there’s something downtown to be excited about. The city is old and decaying.
1toughdominican
Well bccran, I’ll reinforce your point by disclosing the fact that I’ve often proclaimed to anyone who would listen that I genuinely believe that for the past ten years or so, the Cardinals may well be the solitary remaining asset of a once nice and entirely safe downtown StL. area. And as I mentioned, I’m not sure they’ll be too enthusiastic about hanging around once the current venue is deemed worse for wear unless some tangible and effective actions are put into place to restore the overall atmosphere of the city.
Sometimes I wonder if I live in a completely different world than some of you. Downtown St. Louis is nice. Wash Ave., City Museum, the Arch, Union Station and the Aquarium….What are you talking about? Pre-covid, it was probably the NICEST downtown has ever been in my lifetime. There’s also over $3.5B of projects going on in downtown right now and another $1+B for the area south of Poplar St. Bridge.
1toughdominican
Before I get in trouble for getting way off topic, I think the Redbird ownership has come to realize that they made a big mistake with the investment they undertook with BPV and the surrounding luxury apartments located at One Cardinal Way. Anyone who participates on this site and resides in the area knows that the downtown area is undoubtedly in more than a little trouble.
This is patently false about One Cardinal Way. My best friend has an apartment overlooking CF and the building and area is extremely popular. I’ve visited many times and we walk around everywhere to hang out. The Wheelhouse is one we specifically go to.
You’re right, Forsch, it would be a boring place. Fantasy trades can be fun.
I guess I just want to spend my time on guys we already have, and fantasize about their potential future success – O’Neill putting together a healthy, productive year, Carlson playing up to his high ceiling, Burleson breaking out, guys like Walker, Gomez, Winn, etc. coming on strong, etc. And on the pitching side – Flaherty being healthy and achieving his ace ceiling, Mikolas pitching like a #1/2 again, Monty being solid for the whole year, and guys like Hudson, Liberatore, Thompson, Graceffo, McGreevey, etc. coming on strong.
At least for me, birds in the hand are more fun than birds in the bush.
Yes, Rah Rah. It’s what fans do when they root for their favorite (and home) team.
I always felt that http://www.thecardinalnation.com was geared toward our prospects, where Brian does such a fantastic job. And guys already on our roster. I’ll stay in that mold.
I think most everyone on this board is a true Cardinal fan and wants the team to do well. Otherwise, why would we be here? But that doesn’t mean we should all assume that everything is hunky dory and should never be allowed to be critical of the organization. Being held accountable is a good thing.
Well Pads, everyone of us resides in a different world regarding our viewpoints and how we interpret the tangible world we all live in together. Regarding the attractions you mentioned, I’ve visited all of them numerous times. I thought City Museum was one of the most unique and interesting places I’d ever been anywhere, and the first of countless times that I hitched a ride to the top of the Arch was well over 50 years ago. I’m almost 65 and have have spent countless hours in the downtown area for both entertainment and work. I was one of the guys who drew a paycheck and got his hands dirty while helping to both raze Busch Memorial Stadium and then building Busch Stadium. I also helped to set the gang forms as they were craned into place for the Kiel Center which is now called the Enterprise Center and is home to the local hockey team. In any event, I’ve experienced the downtown area during many decades of my life and can comforably state that Union Station was really nice until it was absolutely decimated by crime much in the same fashion as was St. Louis Center. The area concerning a once thriving Washington Ave. is without doubt an area of which anyone with a modicum of basic survival instincts will avoid after 8 or 9 pm, and if you want to park a vehicle in the vicinity of City Museum and then spend an hour two enjoying what that attraction has to offer, it had better be an AFV that doesn’t display any glass windows…I have no way of knowing the last time you were in the downtown area during either a couple of hours before or after a Cardinal or Blues game, but my experience has been that the only thing you’ll possibly come into contact with is the occasional ghost. But that’s only an intepretation of someone who resides in a different world.
“Never question and support every move”
It requires original thought to cross the company. Baaaaah is much easier.
Understanding that conservatism seeks to keep things status quo, with all of the recent rule changes, changes to post-season formats and regular season scheduling, more and more WC qualifiers, shuffling of different teams to different divisions and even leagues, the title of this thread certainly wouldn’t apply to the overall picture in Big League baseball. However from my seat, it genuinely applies to the action on the field. I rarely ever see a double steal attempt or a squeeze play of either variety. Catching the opposition off guard with a well timed and placed drag bunt for a base hit used to be relatively common, but seems to have disappeared. Even a run of the mill hit and run seems a rarity these days and the world may well tilt on it’s axis if Brummer ever again steals home…Haha! At any rate, the game on the field for the the last several seasons looks as though almost every Big League field manager was plucked from a think tank funded by the John Birch Society. Anyone else noticed this?
Haha!…If it was me who said it, it wouldn’t be the first nor will it be the last time…However, I do my best to allow others to say whatever they please. Thank you and I’d appreciate your vote in November…
Some interesting facts about the Mets’ and the Cardinals’ salary structures:
The Mets have 2 players signed to contracts longer than 5 years. The Cardinals have 2 players signed to contracts longer than 5 years.
The Mets have 5 players signed to contracts with known amounts, and another with a vesting option, through at least 2025. The Cardinals have 3 players signed to contracts with known amounts, and 2 more with team options, through 2025.
Maybe Cohen isn’t as reckless as it seems. He could, in theory, drop below the luxury tax threshold in 2 years just by letting players become free agents when their contract expires. Of course, that would cost them Scherzer, Carrasco, Canha, Escobar, Quintana, Narvaez, Robertson, Raley, Ottavino, Pham and Alonso. That is a lot of players to replace and the starting rotation would be very thin unless some pitchers improve.
The huge market teams in New York and a few other places have to exist in an environment that is very different than what the the Cardinals exist in. In New York there is vastly more competition for the recreation dollar. There is also vastly more to occupy resident’s attention and fill the local media’s time slots. It takes a lot to cut through the clutter and be relevant. Making a big splash with big stars and big money is a tactic which has more necessity and usefulness there than here.
In past years I did a fair amount of traveling around, mostly for recreation. Almost universally, upon learning I am from St. Louis, people’s response was to mention the Cardinals and the Arch. That is what St. Louis features in the minds of people from other places. Its the perception regardless of what the organization does or doesn’t do. Cardinals ownership does not have to factor staying relevant into the planning. If you find out someone is from NY, your first thought isn’t, “Oh, the Mets”, and I doubt New Yorkers think of the Mets as a core part of what their city is. Ownership in those places has access to more revenue, but it takes more to tap into it.
Talking about the St Louis area, whenever I see one of those “Worst places to live” articles, the St Louis region is always near the top (or bottom, depending on how you want to phrase it). I always cringe seeing that as every few years I go there to catch some games and hang out for a few days. It makes me wonder if it is even safe to do that anymore.
Then I also wonder if potential free agents would not want to move their families there, even for part of the year. But they can certainly locate in an upscale area, so that is probably not a big deal. Plus the Redbirds are a great organization.
My last trip there was 2019, and it was fun. I stayed at a place not far from Lafayette Square, took walks around the square in the morning, then hung out around the arch and riverfront during the day until the game. A couple of hours before the game I hit a place in BBV for a couple of beers, and did some all-in-fun banter with Cub fans (the Baby Bears were in town needless to say).
Hopefully that sort of innocent fun is still available without endangering yourself, or getting hassled by someone wanting to make trouble. An occasional panhandler is no big deal – we have that here in the Denver area as well. But anything that gets violent is a game changer and something to avoid.
My wife and I attended a Cubs game in St Louis last season. While I will say that the hotel we stayed at was not in the best area, we did not have any problems and enjoyed walking around the areas close to the stadium and Arches.
Bikemike…Whenever there’s a game going on, not only the large crowds of fans but also the pronounced presence of law enforcement provide an almost entirely safe atmosphere however, at one time I always parked my car or truck at least 7 to 10 blocks from the ballpark and simply walked to avoid parking fees. I’d now be reluctant to do that. I guess one of the reasons is that I don’t run fast anymore…Haha!
You make a solid point about potential FA’s. There are plenty of nice and entirely safe areas of StL. County. Most of them aren’t even what I’d term “upscale” but are nonetheless nice, clean and friendly communities that I’d guess most everyone would feel entirely safe and at home whether single or raising a young family. But I always ask myself the question if I were a young guy making a lot of money, would I want to spend half the year in StL. or in some nice coastal community like San Diego? If I’m being honest with myself, I’d opt for the sunshine, beaches and bikinis…Haha!
We regularly go to restaurants and venues in the city during the day, but shy away from being there after dark. Never had any serious trouble. A night game is ok but I pay whatever it costs to park close and get out of downtown when it’s over. Nothing downtown I’m interested in. MLB players can live in the affluent suburbs.
1toughdominican, Thank you for the post. I don’t think we are saying much that is different.
I am your sons age so maybe the perception is different. IMO, downtown has really turned around in the last 15-20 years. Regarding my experience, I was downtown as recently as two different weekends last year and out late (and early) both times. I stayed at a hotel one of the times on Washington Ave, went to City Museum, went to Union for hockey, went out and around Busch, and rode the Metro to Forest Park to run in the park. I never felt unsafe or that there was a lot of crime. It was also decently lively, not like pre-pandemic though. I think Wash Ave. seems to just be going stale, much like Laclede’s Landing for a different generation.
Old, old memories of St. Louis: Back in my college days I had a little blues band that played a couple gigs in a place called Gaslight Square. Quite a jumping scene at the time. Of course, the last time I actually attended a ball game in St. Louis was in old Sportsman’a Park, though I did do a tour of the third version the last time I visited my sister in Fenton, Mo.
Gaslight Square was one of the most famous entertainment districts in the country – some of the people who played there –
Smothers Brother
Phyliss Diller
Lenny Bruce
Miles Davis
Barbara Streisand
Jackie Mason
Mike Nichols
Elaine May
Woody Allen
Jerry Stiller
Dick GregoryIn recent years, what I’ve seen is that much of the vast area of downtown between the ballpark/Ballpark Village and Washington Ave. has become vacant – at least those that are retail/food/entertainment related. That is not a particularly comfortable walk at night. From institutions like Shannon’s to St. Louis Bread Co. to even fast food joints like Hardees have closed down in recent years. I feel for those business owners.
The last game I attended in person was in 2015. We parked at City Museum, spent the afternoon there, then walked to the stadium to avoid excessive parking fees. That was a mistake. The walk back to the car after the night game was not pleasant at all. There were no major incidents but we did not feel comfortable and I will not make that mistake again.
I used to always stay near Union Station but that is not a good walk after dark either. The next game I attend I will be staying within a block or two of the stadium.
Not too many places completely disappear, but Gaslight Square is one. Utterly gone. All those old buildings, gone. The whole place was bulldozed, although not all at once. But to be fair, it had been a bombed out war zone for a couple decades. Now days a lot of regeneration has happened around there, centered on Olive and Boyle like the Gaslight Square entertainment district did. But it is now residential. Little to no commerce. No nightlife, or venues for nightlife. None of those buildings with a row of storefronts with apartments above. Gaslight Square is gone without a trace.
My parents would talk about going there mid 50s. But what it boiled down to was the WW2 generation wanted no part of the early rock and roll crowd that was starting to show up in large enough numbers to attract venues catering to them to move in. They said you couldn’t listen to jazz at a sidewalk cafe any more because of the noise from the rock and roll joints drowning it out and scruffy looking ne’er do wells lounging around, not at all properly turned out for an after hours entertainment district. Its not hard to imagine the two crowds being incompatible.
Years ago we would park free at Ralston Purina because of family working there. A good walk that gets you beyond the ballgame crowds and pretty much on your own. Zero chance I would make that walk now, even if I was young. I wouldn’t even leave my car there at night, to be honest.
Yeah Bling, both my mom and dad used to talk about their escapades while carousing around Gaslight Square. Some of the conversation created the impression that they were both quite the part animals before my brother and I came along…Haha! You also mentioned parking at Ralston Purina. That was a pretty good walk, but at one time relatively safe. I always used to find a parking spot at the curb west of the Stadium on Market St. near city hall and the police headquarters. The meters were inactive after 5pm and on weekends. In any event, I never had a problem with anyone tampering with my vehicle or any sort of dicey situations during the walk to and from. Of course, I was younger and once you get to be about 50 you lose a lot of confidence in your ability to sprint from 1B to HP…Haha!
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