Carlos Martinez in trouble again

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  • #148231
    Avatargscottar
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    When have the Cardinals ever been sellers at the deadline? I guess you could argue that the Pham trade was the Cardinals being the “seller” but that is a bit of a stretch. They were 4 games out of the wild card at the time and they were mostly trying to free up playing time for O’Neill and Bader. I didn’t view it is waiving the white flag.

    #149527
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    #149529
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    I thought Mo said he hoped Carlos would be avoiding video (in reference to his music video snafu)? Either way, it’ll be interesting to see how he fares in winter ball.

    #149534
    Avatargscottar
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    Yeah I think Mo was referencing the video of the little joy ride on the scooter. Anyway, I hope Carlos realizes how crucial 2021 is for his career. If he flops again he will spend the rest of his career on 1yr/$5M deals, if that.

    #149541
    RatsbuddyRatsbuddy
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    I’ve said it multiple times before. There are two players that 2021 is a make-or-break year for them. Carlos Martinez and Alex Reyes. Its time to fish or cut bait. As far as I am concerned if they dont produce in 2021 then get rid of them and hope for a sack of potatoes in return.

    r/Esteemed Rat

    #149542
    Avatarbccran
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    Martinez needs to go now.

    #149543
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    See how the jokes go right over my head?

    There is a major difference in the two pitchers lumped together. Martinez would get paid a total $35 MM in 2022 and 2023 if not bought out (for $1 MM). On the other hand, Reyes will still be arbitration eligible through 2023, so will make a tiny fraction of that. They can afford to give Reyes far more rope if he shows he is worthy.

    #149544
    Avatarbccran
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    Martinez has had his chances. His antics and his crazy “look at me” hair colors need to move on.

    #149547
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    Martinez has had his chances. His antics and his crazy “look at me” hair colors need to move on.

    Yeah, it has totally stunk to have one of the better pitchers in the NL for the last 6-7 years. But his cup stacking and colored hair are just too much.

    #149549
    Avatarbccran
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    25 – A career 3.51 ERA and 1.29 WHIP tell me he’s probably not one of the better pitchers in the NL over the past 6-7 years. He a very talented guy who’s never played up to his potential because he’s a wee light upstairs.

    #149551
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Round and round we go. “Time to move on” is such tough talk. So you want DeWitt to eat $12.5 MM so Martinez can pitch for another team? That is savvy business advice…

    #149552
    Avatarbccran
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    Actually what I was saying Brian, is that it’s time to move on after 2021, when it goes into back to back team option years. Or sooner if they can find a suitable trade partner.
    Hopefully even this off season. If he’s one of the better pitchers in the NL, as stlcard25 says he is (thus a bargain at $12.0 million), maybe we can get some value in return.

    #149553
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    25 – A career 3.51 ERA and 1.29 WHIP tell me he’s probably not one of the better pitchers in the NL over the past 6-7 years.

    Since 2014, he’s 16th in wins, 11th in ERA, 12th in WHIP, 15th in Ks, 13th in batting average allowed, 1st in fewest HR/9 allowed among NL pitchers with at least 600 IP over that time. His bad 2020 hurts that. So I’d say he’s been “one of the better pitchers in the NL.” Not a staff ace, but he’s been more than fine.

    He will likely move on after 2021 and that may be what’s best for both parties, but we can stop pretending that he’s not been a very good pitcher for the Cards.

    #149554
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    Don’t feed the

    #149556
    Avatarbccran
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    What’s that, jj? Finish the sentence please for all of us. Thank you.

    #149559
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    No need, you’ve made it obvious to all.

    #149562
    Avatarbccran
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    Really, jj? Could you expand on that? If you’re going to go about calling other Cardinal fans names, perhaps (in fairness) you should say why. Thank you in advance for doing it.

    We all have our opinions about players.
    I hope in an open forum we’re free to be transparent and express those opinions. If people disagree, that’s their right to think it and express it. Without being degraded and called names.

    #149591
    Avatarbccran
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    Okay, jj, you choose not to expand on why you called me a troll. To each his own.

    But I will take a minute to share a few thoughts about what I think of you –

    1.) I think you’re a great long time Cardinal fan.
    2.) I think you’re very knowledgeable about the Cardinals system at both the major league level and the minor league level.
    3.) I think you’re a true asset to TCN.

    I also appreciate a few things we have in common –

    1.) I too used to listen to Cardinal games on a small transistor radio and hoped for a telecast.
    2.) Children – we also have 2.
    3.) Grandchildren – we have 6
    4.) Marriage longevity – my wife and I celebrated our
    50 anniversary last month.

    Best wishes to you and yours for a very Joyous Holiday Season.

    #149602
    Avatarbccran
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    25 – I wish I had your high hopes for Carlos. But he hasn’t put in a full season as a starter since 2017, when he was a .500 pitcher. He first appeared in the majors in 2013, and has only had 3 seasons as a full time starter. And last season he had
    a 9.90 ERA and 2.10 WHIP in only 5 starts.
    Gave up 32 hits in only 20 innings. He’s been in the organization since 2010. Great talent. Excellent seasons in 2015 and 2016, but kinda downhill from there. At least as a starter.

    #149614
    AvatarNigel T
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    bccran,
    Thank you for your earlier post and making this site exceptionally enjoyable.

    #149621
    Avatarbccran
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    Thank you for your kind words, Nigel.

    #149622
    AvatarPugsleyAddams
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    That was one whale of an olive branch that Cranny extended in JJ’s direction. Carpe de olivio brancho, JJ…….or however you say “seize the olive branch, JJ” in Latin.

    You know, RatsBuddy and Cranny would be a huge Carlos Martinez fans, regardless of his antics, if only he was pitching well. Mark “The Bird” Fidrych and a host of others have previously found this out. You can be a total tool or astronomically arrogant and people will love you……as long as you produce. Take Rush Limbaugh. I am not being political here, just utilizing him as an example. For decades, Rush and his “tying half his brain behind his back” and “talent on loan from God” sentiments have failed to derail his popularity. Why? Because the man consistently is at the top of his game.
    But what if Carlos is lights out in 2021? Do you pony up the $35MM to secure his services for ’22 & ’23? I don’t think the man can be trusted. If he wins the CY this year, I still don’t bring him back.

    #149630
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    If Carlos is lights out in 2021, then his 2022 and 2023 options become very tradeable. That is really a best-possible scenario.

    (To all, whether pro or con Rush, please do not respond to that. Pugs loves to push the envelope, so needs to be reminded now and then we are watching…)

    #149634
    Avatarso_cal_cards_fan
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    Bccran,

    Thanks for your awesome post of reconciliation. Quite a nice thing for any forum.
    My wife and I are going on 18 years. you are leaving a great legacy for your grands.

    Pugs, please don’t talk politics. I am trying to escape from the real world, and this forum should be a place where real issues are never discussed, because otherwise we might influence people and change the world for the better, and who would want that on their conscience?

    Besides, Rush is a Royals fan. Sheesh.

    #149635
    Avatarbccran
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    Pugs – you have a point. Top notch performance covers up a lot of other things. And it would with Carlos. I would feel differently about him if he played to his ceiling and stayed out of trouble. I truly hope he has a good year, if he stays with the Cardinals. As Brian says, it would make him more tradable. Or if the maturity factor kicks in maybe they would keep him.

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