Carlos Martinez in trouble again

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  • #148125
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    A very realistic assessment, gscottar. Some won’t like it, though.

    #148134
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    I vote the org put a 5 year ban on the Martinez surname. The last two have been real bozos.

    #148137
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    I’ll take bozos who hit .300 or throw 200 innings of low 3s ERA ball, happily. Give me a whole team of Martinezes.

    #148148
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    Fast forward to the present and they are two negative war players.

    #148149
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    And that means what, exactly? They only became bozos when they stopped being good players? Or was their bozohood masked by their ability to hit and pitch before?

    Also, there’s about a 1/100 chance that Carlos is a negative war player next year, but that’s beside the point.

    #148150
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    Sorry, looks like I hit a nerve. I was just joking around about the surname because I previously called JMart “Bozo”, for months, and CMart’s current conduct is rather clown like also. Didn’t mean to offend.

    #148151
    Avatarbccran
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    He’s more of a bozo than you may know, 25. We really don’t want him on this team.

    #148153
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    I don’t care for Carlos’ behavior either, but at the same time, he’s been a valuable member of the team for 7 seasons now. Given what we would get in a trade for him, I believe the scenario put out by gscottar earlier in this thread is best for both the team and Carlos. He could use a new start elsewhere, but he won’t bring any value to the Cards unless he’s pitching reasonably well. That’s where I’ll leave it.

    I think I’d forgotten your nickname for Jmart, jj. Lol

    #148154
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    Yah, BW asked me to quit using it so I did.

    So Carlos can be bought out next winter. Maybe that incentive will produce a 2017 season from him next year.

    #148155
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    So Carlos can be bought out next winter. Maybe that incentive will produce a 2017 season from him next year.

    If he’s healthy and pitching well (or normal for his career), you could see a team with deeper pockets being interested in making the trade and possibly picking up the option(s). If that’s the case, a trade would be a near no brainer. He’d be worth something similar to what Marcus Stroman was worth when the Mets traded their #4 and 6 prospects for him. Even one of those guys would be a steal, considering his value currently.

    #148156
    RatsbuddyRatsbuddy
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    I kept calling both Martinez boys by that same name – bozos. Both of them are in my mind. Jose was a goofball that didnt take the game seriously. Carlos had/has a ton of talent but would rather stack cups, spray water, and color his hair instead of taking a Bob Gibson-like intensity to games.

    I was glad when Jose left and I’ll be glad when Carlos leaves. And as I have said before, we have two guys on the team that 2021 is a make-or-break year for them. Carlos Martinez and Anthony Reyes. If they dont produce next year or get hurt next year then let them go. If you have to trade them for a sack of potatoes that would be fine with me.

    r/Esteemed Rat

    #148157
    Avatar858booyah
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    You won’t trade off Martinez or any player in the 2021 offseason and eat a huge chunk of change. Teams are mostly looking to save money and lowball FA.

    Plus if Martinez rebounds as a starter in 21 It’s not like 2022 is a slam dunk to be played anymore than maybe 100 games.

    Hey the guys a clown and he should know better after having covid but shall we condemn him when several thousands of Americans can’t stay away from Halloween gatherings and likely won’t do the same for Thanksgiving? How’s your super spreader Thanksgiving plans going? lol

    #148159
    Avatarbccran
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    It wasn’t an isolated case.

    #148161
    AvatarPugsleyAddams
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    There couldn’t be a dry eye in the entire Cardinal Nation nest for those of us who read Carlos’ heartfelt apology. I came away with the sense that Carlos feels devastated by his error in judgement and will never commit such a silly infraction again. Yes, I too feel that Carlos’agent helped in the construction of the apology, but only in a grammatical manner. The contents of the letter have “CARLOS MARTINEZ” written all over them. I say we grant this young man one more chance. As the late Bugsy Siegel liked to say, “everyone needs a fresh start every now and then”. Go Birds and go Carlos!

    #148163
    Avatar858booyah
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    Idk if it’ll be the last time he’ll do something stupid but it’s the offseason and stuff will happen on other teams. Still poor judgement on his part and he has a history.

    #148185
    Avatargscottar
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    If he’s healthy and pitching well (or normal for his career), you could see a team with deeper pockets being interested in making the trade and possibly picking up the option(s)

    But if he is healthy and pitching well the Cardinals aren’t going to trade him. That was my point regarding the myth of “buy low sell high”.

    #148186
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    But if he is healthy and pitching well the Cardinals aren’t going to trade him. That was my point regarding the myth of “buy low sell high”.

    I wouldn’t be so sure about that. My feeling is that if they’ve tried to trade him multiple times already, they will pull the trigger unless the team is looking like a true contender. It would be easy enough if Oviedo, Rondon, Liberatore or Thompson were looking good at Memphis and ready to make the jump.

    #148187
    Avatargscottar
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    If Carlos is pitching well and if the Cardinals are in the thick of the division race I would be very surprised if they moved him during the season. If there is one consistent message coming from this front office the last 20 years it is that they want to be an annual contender. It would be difficult to reconcile that sentiment with moving him at that time.

    #148196
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    Carlos probably has the Pham syndrome in the Cardinals FO about now. They managed to get rid of Pham at the deadline in 2018. While they weren’t right in the thick of the division race, they were still relatively alive in the Wild Card. I think they would do it unless he was pitching like an ace and they were leading the division.

    #148207
    Avatargscottar
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    This discussion of Carlos reminds me of how it wasn’t that long ago that we thought we were looking at a dynastic run of our own based on a young unbelievable rotation.

    Carlos Martinez
    Shelby Miller
    Michael Wacha
    Trevor Rosenthal
    Alex Reyes

    And this was before guys like Flaherty, Hudson, and Hicks were emerging.

    Sometimes things can change in a hurry.

    #148215
    thejagerthejager
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    CMart I am sure is sorry….though is he sorry for his actions or just that he got caught…always hard to figure out but is the only thing that really matters…

    Reyes has drug issue…ok…then he punches a wall…well at least it wasnt the same mistake…but since then seems locked in

    Cmart has always seemed like the guy who needs attention, when he has too much time he strays…it makes sense that he worked better in the pen, where he was needed to be focused potentially every game…early on the attention came from him being the phenom…but once he stumbled and got hurt…then the attention wasnt on him it was on his faults…that is not as addictive…or as exciting

    he is pretty expensive for a non closer reliever…especially on a team who just said goodbye to a gold glove 2b who’s offense was far from the worst on the team…and at least you could see his last good year from 2019 through the fog of 2020…

    If someone thinks he can start for them…i dont see how you don’t deal him, even for a lesser package… the money to use ratio seems way off…and we have depth at SP and RP…id trust Gant more in the pen…and id trust Gomber and Ponce in the rotation more than him…

    Yankees do look like they are in need of pitching…and they have a lot of outfielders…I like Clint Frazier…has his own warts but looks to be in the mold of the type of OFer the Cardinals like

    #148219
    Avatar14NyquisT
    Participant

    Realistically the best option for the Cardinals is that Carlos stays out of trouble the rest of winter, has a good spring training, then is inserted as the number 4 or 5 starter and has a good year. They can then most likely decline his option for 2022 and move on.

    Gscott… this is putting too much pressure on the youngster.

    #148223
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    “thick of the division race” :

    Last offseason owners put an emphasis on postseason revenue like it’s the prize at the end of the rainbow.

    Is that shared equally amongst 30 teams? Or just the participants? The latter would suggest our ownership wouldn’t sell off at the deadline and have their sights set on a postseason run to pull in as much postseason revenue as possible.

    #148225
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    jj, here’s an older article on the revenue distribution from the gates:

    https://blogs.fangraphs.com/who-gets-what-from-postseason-ticket-revenue/

    My guess is that the TV money gets split between all the teams.

    #148226
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    thanks, I had already googled 3 pages worth (that article included) and really didn’t find the answer I was looking for.

    I did see the players of each participant team do get postseason shares. I’ve always believed the postseason revenue was distributed between postseason teams, but was looking for conformation. If we’re in the hunt, it will make selling off at the deadline less desirable to our ownership.

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