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The “hold them accountable” crowd is getting under Mark Saxon’s skin it seems:
Woke up to, like, 80 angry replies about the #Cardinals, Mo and the soft coverage of the team. Imagine how grumpy people might be if their team that had had more than a couple losing seasons in the last 20-plus years and wasn’t .500 after putting 10 players on COVID IL.
— Mark Saxon (@markasaxon) September 1, 2020
I am not surprised that the “angry mob” is upset by our lack of trade deadline activity. Believe me I have been there, however in this instance I think Mo and the front office are fully justified by standing pat. They are trying to piece together the 40 man roster with all of the covid issues, have played so few games to know what we have, and realistically can we say that one or two moves is going to make us a world series contender?
I am not saying the front office shouldn’t be able to walk and chew gum at the same time but I think making moves this winter would be more prudent due to the volatility of the roster right now, not to mention to sticking to the stated goal of figuring out what we have with our young OF’s.
Hey, I like trade action as much as anyone on this board (except jager), but this just wasn’t the time to do it.
To that point, Mo made a very interesting statement yesterday about wanting to see how the young outfielders do this season to help them decide if they “have to go external in the off-season.”
I’m not saying they should have done anything yesterday, but it is easy to see why some are upset they didn’t do something one way or the other (buy or sell). They were one of two teams (Washington – defending World Series Champions) that didn’t make an external move at all. That sreams of not trying to improve to some.
Again I’m not saying either way what they should have done, I just understand the argument some have. The goal isn’t just to win or be .500. The ultimate goal is to always be working toward championships or at least that is what the goal should be. 2011 was a long time ago Mr. Saxson and it’s fading fast in the rearview mirror. Just sayin’.
For once, I actually agree with Mark Saxon. This team has endured a lot and although I’m frustrated as any about some of the recent losses, there’s still a lot of talent available. Only a handful of the players who were traded are guys I’d consider an actual upgrade.
Just wonder if an Ozuna type trade was available, but Mo was reluctant to give up arms right now in this shortened, doubled header laden season.
“have to go external in the offseason” – Mo
Tyler O’Neill benched himself in August w/60 PA’s and a .517 ops. Edman is in LF and Thomas is here now. From the outside it looks like they’re done looking at Tyler. How do they get him back in the mix with a postseason birth at risk?
Carlson’s playing time is starting to look weird for the same postseason birth reason, and it’s at Baders expense imo. If you need Edmans bat in the outfield why don’t we need Bader in CF at Carlsons expense? It’s not like Dylan is going to lose his scholarship.
So where does Thomas get any playing time?
bccran, the best way to answer that is to look around at the other difference-making hitters traded across all of MLB. (There weren’t any.) The few big names moved were pitchers.
So my conclusion is that Mo most likely did not turn down any great deals for an Ozuna-type of hitter.
jj asked:
So where does Thomas get any playing time?
Shildt said yesterday that Thomas is most likely going to be coming off the bench. That means he is going to have earn more time in his limited chances. He has a month to do it.
bccran, none of those trades were made in the middle of the 2020 pandemic.
Further, three of the four were made during the off-season, not in July/August. And the one that wasn’t was 11 years ago. And even that was a unique situation, known across the game that Holliday did not want to be in Oakland. He pretty much forced the A’s to trade him. What case parallels that right now?
Step back from the disappointment and pay heed to what Mo said. He was not looking for an impact bat now, but he might this winter based on how the rest of the season goes.
My opinion FWIW – I don’t think Edman’s bat warrants an outfield spot. I would keep Ty out there in the hopes he can generate power. I would not give up on him yet, and would keep him there this entire two month season. If he does not do enough to earn a shot for next season then you see what you can in the off season. Carlson is not doing any better than O’Neill, but has been in there every day. He will hit though, at least I think he will. Might be 2021, but I would not be surprised to see him got a little streak going over the last 2-3 weeks of the season if Shildt keeps running him out there. I think Tyler would get going about now, but he may not get the chance.
I am okay with staying pat through this season. It is just a weird season, and not worth taking too much risk for what you hope is an impact player.
I get Shildt’s response to Thomas arrival. He’s got Fowler playing very well in RF and Mo wants Carlson starting. That leaves one OF spot for Bader, Thomas and O’Neill, WHILE he’s playing Edman out there. HA!
How about DH? Millers sporting a 153 ops+ that none of the above are matching.
Wong 66 ops+ and Carp 71 ops+ at 3B? Wellll, both have sizeable contracts, especially Carp, does Shildt really want to go there with Edman regularly?
But Mo wants to see his young outfielders now, for offseason reasons. Easier said than done, while trying to win. Good luck Shildty
I think jj nailed it. I would just enhance the point about Miller, as I see him having compounded some of the problems. His hitting forced him into the lineup, but his defense forced him into the DH. That is a double whammy to the outfielders. It blocks one of the outfielders from getting DH at bats and forces Carp to third and Edman into the OF, where he ideally would not be.
I don’t mind them standing pat for now. They can see what they have and do some trading / reshuffling (pun intended) after the season.
Carpenter is one guy who should sit. His constant presence in the lineup is creating some of the logjam for the outfielders. I would open up that outfield spot by playing Edman at third, and having Carp sit out quite a lot. He has not done much since 2018.
Edman is a stop-gap outfielder. He is not going to hit enough to be a regular corner outfielder. But he is fine at third where his defense plays well. He is even better as a shortstop – not sure what the defensive metrics show but DeJong might profile more as a thirdbaseman, especially with the power he can generate, so if Edman solidifies himself with another strong effort here in 2020 they might want to switch the two in ’21.
The way Wongs results are going this season, 2B may be Edmans clearest path to a regular starting position in 2021. That is a club option on Wong next season.
The way Wongs results are going this season, 2B may be Edmans clearest path to a regular starting position in 2021. That is a club option on Wong next season.
Unless he’s traded, there’s no way that Wong won’t be on the Cards next year. They will be picking up the option unless Dewitt suddenly feels too poor to field a competitive team next year.
My disappointment wasn’t so much the void at the trade deadline, it was going into this season without making an outfield move. Banking on a resurgent Carp, a semi resurgent DeJong, and two unproven youngsters in the outfield was taking too much risk for an annual contender.
stlcard, thank for your opinion, it’s almost like you can see the future with “there is no way”. That’s pretty absolute, and you even gave yourself an out where you can blame it on the owner. Bases covered.
jj said:
The way Wongs results are going this season, 2B may be Edmans clearest path to a regular starting position in 2021. That is a club option on Wong next season.
Small sample size alert!
Wong’s season line two days ago: .205/.330/.247/.576
Wong right now: .256/.367/.305/.672That is 96 points of OPS improvement in just two games. More patience is in order.
stlcard, thank for your opinion, it’s almost like you can see the future with “there is no way”. That’s pretty absolute, and you even gave yourself an out where you can blame it on the owner. Bases covered.
Kolten’s option is for $12.5M, effectively $11.5M with the buyout. Considering his production, it doesn’t take a soothsayer to predict that it will be picked up. A few weeks of poor results aren’t going to change that. Your insinuation that it would was why I made my comment.
The “out” was tongue in cheek. Despite his low reputation among some, Dewitt has never used money as an excuse to field an uncompetitive team. That won’t happen in 2021 either.
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