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I would. If we could get a top end prospect for him. We have plenty of starting pitching. I know we will need a lot of it with the double headers coming up but we could afford to give up at least 1 starter.
I would, yes. I think Hudson has more value than Carlos as an asset with more control and probably cheaper. I also think Carlos is the better pitcher. It would slot in Oviedo as a starter going forward, and I think after this year we could get the kind of performance from Oviedo that we could from Hudson.
But I am as high on Kiriloff as a hitter as anyone since Juan Soto. If it took Hudson and a prospect, I would make that trade. It would hurt the Cards this year, so I can’t imagine they would do it though.
stlcard25 said:
It would hurt the Cards this year, so I can’t imagine they would do it though.
Bingo. It looks like a white flag trade. Then again, it wouldn’t hurt attendance. 😉
The only way they might be able to talk around it is if they were going to put Kirilloff directly into the lineup with Carlson and roll the dice the two rookies would carry the team to success in 2020.
Since Fowler is playing well, he would stay in. So it would pretty much signal the end for Bader, O’Neill and Thomas as far as competing for a starting job.
Good discussion fodder, but as noted, it is not likely to actually happen. But the reason I brought up Hudson in the first place is that he is the kind of player that teams want. Injured guys and question marks are not trade deadline kind of targets for teams trying to win now, like the Twins in this example.
I’d trade any of the following for a good bat –
Hudson
Martinez
Woodford
Cabrera
Reyes
Gomber
Oviedo
RondonSo far, most of the action has been pitching-related. Is Jose Martinez the most notable hitter to be traded to date? No impact bats yet that I recall.
Hudsons value can be tied to his rotation readiness this coming month / postseason, but who of his replacement candidates has more value than Hudson for his four service years remaining? None? A few? Where would Hudson rank long term vs our SP depth?
I am not sure that would hurt us too much this year. We have the starters to fill Hudson’s spot. They are just as good of pitchers. Oviedo looks able to replace Hudson and Gomber could fill Ponce de Leon’s spot.
Good discussion fodder, but as noted, it is not likely to actually happen. But the reason I brought up Hudson in the first place is that he is the kind of player that teams want. Injured guys and question marks are not trade deadline kind of targets for teams trying to win now, like the Twins in this example.
Yep. It’s not going to be as interesting a deadline as usual. Certainly I don’t think the Cards are likely to do anything. But it’s one of the couple times of the year (winter meetings being the other) when it’s not too crazy to dream on some swaps.
The most active team so far has been the Padres. It seems like they are doing a deal every 30 minutes. Is Preller trying to become the next Dipoto? Actually I think the two of them did a deal together last night or this morning.
Hudsons value can be tied to his rotation readiness this coming month / postseason, but who of his replacement candidates has more value than Hudson for his four service years remaining? None? A few? Where would Hudson rank long term vs our SP depth?
Of his replacements? You’re basically talking about Oviedo, Ponce, Gomber or Woodford in the short term. Long term, Rondon, Liberatore and Thompson could be ready as soon as next year. A 2021 rotation of Flaherty, Wainwright, Mikolas, Carlos, and KK Kim is probably serviceable with Oviedo and perhaps Woodford or Ponce as your 6/7 and the other guys being potential call ups later in the season. Or maybe you want to try Alex Reyes in the rotation again. They certainly have some options. Maybe not great ones. But this season is a crap shoot anyway. If you could get an elite hitter for the future from a team that values a guy like Hudson highly, then go for it.
Preller strikes again…
Padres To Acquire Mike Clevinger https://t.co/eAjLYRH16I pic.twitter.com/oRWq1NY29E
— MLB Trade Rumors (@mlbtraderumors) August 31, 2020
#Padres acquisitions in the last 48 hours:
Mike Clevinger
Mitch Moreland
Austin Nola
Jason Castro
Austin Adams
Dan Altavilla
Trevor RosenthalAJ Preller can make a deal – or 5!
— Jayson Stark (@jaysonst) August 31, 2020
What about bullpen help? Both based on current needs and past behavior, that does seem one place the Cards might look to add someone.
It’ll be interesting to see what the Padres traded for Clevinger. They have a deep farm system, so I’d imagine it will be at least one top end prospect, but probably not Gore or Patino.
I agree 1964 Cards, but at the same point in Hudsons career we could have said the same.
Through 94 IP, like Ponce has, Hudson K/BB and WHIP were much worse. Ponces struggles are recent. Last year Hudson leading the NL in BB’s is farther from recent memory. Hudson struggled too.
What about bullpen help? Both based on current needs and past behavior, that does seem one place the Cards might look to add someone.
Yes, I think so. That was actually my prediction from a few days ago.
I have zero expectations for the trade deadline because:
1. The aforementioned obstacles such as 40 man issues, loss of present year revenue, uncertainty about future revenue, etc….
2. We usually don’t do much at the deadline in a normal year.
I could see us maybe adding some bullpen depth but probably not anything major.
I think Ponce can be an excellent relief option. His stuff is probably at least equal to Gant’s, if not better. He’ll get more time as a starter this year and perhaps next spring, but his leash is running out before he gets moved to the pen.
That’s quite the deal. Jager would be proud.
Source: Deal is Clevinger, Greg Allen and PTBN to Padres; Quantrill, Arias, Cantillo, Hedges, Naylor and Miller to Indians.
— Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) August 31, 2020
That’s the Padres #7, 9, 11 prospects (MLB) plus their #11 last year and a starter prospect and reserve catcher.
The Padres gave up the ship for Clevinger and I think it’s offensive upgrades the Cardinals need not pitching.
Geez… the Pads gave up so much of their upcoming talent to get Clevinger. He better not turn out to be a dud for them. Even Mo wouldn’t pull a stunt like that.
jj said:
Through 94 IP, like Ponce has, Hudson K/BB and WHIP were much worse. Ponces struggles are recent. Last year Hudson leading the NL in BB’s is farther from recent memory. Hudson struggled too.
How about number of innings per start? Are they even close?
Would Ponce lead the league in groundball rate like Hudson? What is his standout skill?
stlcard25 said:
That’s the Padres #7, 9, 11 prospects (MLB) plus their #11 last year and a starter prospect and reserve catcher.
And remember that SD has (or should I say, had) one of the top farm systems in baseball.
“What about bullpen help? Both based on current needs and past behavior, that does seem one place the Cards might look to add someone.”
I wanted Rosey back, but he’s gone. I still look at KC though. Ian Kennedy, Danny Duffy (as a reliever) and could they pry Merrifield?
Joey Gallo or JD Martinez to me are interesting targets too. I don’t like Gallo K% but good OF and LH power.
I’ve said before Wong needs to go and I’ll say it again. Maybe Boston would want him since they don’t have a 2B.
I never thought I’d say this, but unless Merrifield could be acquired, then Fowler needs to go back to leading off. I’d definitely include O’Neill for a bat, outside of him it would depend on who were talking about.
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