MLB labor unrest

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This topic contains 214 replies, has 18 voices, and was last updated by Avatar CariocaCardinal 1 week, 3 days ago.

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  • #81960
    Brian Walton
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    NJ, if the owners have not been held accountable, why isn’t that the players own fault? They negotiated the current CBA just two years ago. If they did not like it, why didn’t they refuse to sign and strike then?

    Why should fans get involved in how much an employer pays its employees, anyway?

    Or if you are talking about three years from now, when the next CBA comes up, then yes, the players need to do a better job in their bargaining with the owners.

    #81962
    jj-cf-stl
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    Owners = lions share of revenue NJ?

    I disagree. All articles i’ve read have the player % over 50%.

    I actually find it backwards that the players get the larger cut. The owners expenses to generate this mlb revenue dwarf player expenses.

    #81965
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    CariocaCardinal
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    #81966
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    mudville
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    NJ315 – The greed is not just two-sided. In fact, the greed is three-sided. The fans are greedy, too. Rather than being satisfied with the game that it is, with players developing, growing, getting better, all we care about is win at any cost. Who cares if a ticket costs $40, $60, $80 for a baseball game? We have to win. Nothing else matters but winning. That’s a form of greed, too.

    The conversation is about unsigned players this offseason. Any one of these kids could sign for a million dollars, minimum, and be on their way to spring training in the morning. They think a million dollar offer is insulting, I guess. I heard a playback of an interview with Bud Norris on the Fast Lane with Randy Karraker, Brad Thompson, and whoever that other guy is. Bud was saying that he does have offers but that he’s worked hard, and the offers he has received just weren’t good enough. I got so teary-eyed that I thought I might have to pull over and wait a bit before I could drive. Somehow I managed to get home, brokenhearted for poor Bud Norris who, BTW, has already banked $25,699,500.

    #81980
    Brian Walton
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    #81996
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    gscottar
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    I consider myself to be pro-player but I agree that a deal is a deal. The players shouldn’t be allowed to strike in the middle of a CBA as long as the owners are abiding by the rules of the current CBA, which they seem to be. The reality is that the players agreed to a bad deal for them and they have to live with it for three more years. In their defense though you can’t always predict how certain changes are going to impact the marketplace. They must have made some incorrect assumptions.

    Do I think the owners are using the current rules to maximize things in their favor? Of course they are but that is legal to do so until the rules are changed. I have zero sympathy for the owners because their organizations wouldn’t be worth anything if it weren’t for the players and fans, but you can’t in good faith take legal action against someone who is following the current laws.

    As I have stated recently, until the service time rules are changed, I think players would benefit by going year to year instead of seeking the mega contract that isn’t going to happen. The higher AAV’s will make up for the lack of longevity of the deals.

    #82086
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    BS like this is why the MLBPA will strike

    There is zero reasoning for Vlad or Tatis to be in the minors. Heck they should have in MLB last season but were kept back.

    #82087
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    CariocaCardinal
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    You will never stop service time manipulation. Too much subjectivity involved. Teams that want to do it will find a way to do it. Besides, the mlbpa doesnt represent guys like Vlad Jr..

    #82088
    Brian Walton
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    BHC, this has happened for years. Remember Kris Bryant? How come the Players did not hold out to change this in the current CBA?

    I agree the practice is bad, but the players are going to have to live with it for three more years because it is their own fault for not insisting it be addressed before, when the contract was open.

    They have no grounds to strike until this labor agreement expires. And if they did strike before then, I would give 100-1 odds that the courts would order them back to work.

    There will be plenty of rhetoric from the players, but this is the reality.

    #82089
    Brian Walton
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    CC, you are right. There is no way to completely stamp out service time manipulation as long as the compensation system and free agency system are based on service time. Your answer is probably better than mine. Maybe the reason the players did not try to address it before is that they did not have a better idea.

    #82093
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    One way to stop it would be to start the service time clock as soon as a player is drafted. Teams would then want their star players to get to the majors ASAP.

    #82097
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    I agree with you Brian. The players don’t have a ground to strike since they negotiated a contract. Its too bad they negotiated a bad contract but they’ll have to fix it on the next CBA.

    #82098
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    #82100
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    Gscott, that would almost end the drafting of high school players. Also encouraging teams to promote young guys faster will cost veterans jobs. No easy answers for most of these issues and lots of potential for unintended consequences.

    #82102
    Brian Walton
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    Waino tweeted there are 100 guys without jobs. What he did not note is that many of them are less than replacement level players and probably don’t deserve a major league contract.

    #82107
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    CC, it wouldn’t end drafting high school players. You would have to have two service time clocks. One for college players (6-7 years) and one for high school players (8-9 years).

    #82113
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    Waino and some also dont seem to realize that the number of jobs is a zero sum game. Sign those 100 players and another 100 are out of a job.

    #82116
    Brian Walton
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    He only cares about the 100 who are in his Union. While says he stands alongside the other 100, who are minor leaguers, he doesn’t. That is the difference.

    #82117
    jj-cf-stl
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    Pay scale, by age, through age 25. All players are FA’s the calendar yr of there 26th birthday. All players hit free agency at the start of the prime years.

    Owners have cost certainty through age 25 and will be getting players to mlb as soon as deemed ready to utilize control yrs. Clubs have 9 yrs control of 17 yr olds. Debuts at 20 still have 6 yrs of control.

    Arb salaries and service time issues gone. Minors players included in salary structure. All players through age 25 working on pro-rated split contracts, depending on at mlb, or at milb.

    Pay scale:
    Mlb age 17, 0.25mil, milb 25k (10%)
    Mlb age 18, 0.50mil, milb 50k (10%)
    Mlb age 19, 0.75mil, milb 60k (8%)
    Mlb age 20, 1.00mil, milb 70k (7%)
    Mlb age 21, 1.50mil, milb 90k (6%)
    Mlb age 22, 2.00mil, milb 100k (5%)
    Mlb age 23, 2.50mil, milb 100k (4%)
    Mlb age 24, 3.00mil, milb 120k (4%)
    Mlb age 25, 3.50mil, milb 122.5k (3.5%)

    Example:
    17-19 in minors, 135k
    20-25 in majors, 13.5mil
    Now go get the FA contract you’ve played for.

    #82118
    Brian Walton
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    Manfred with the full body slam…

    #82123
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    If that’s not a dig at Waino call me stupid.

    #82129
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    CariocaCardinal
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    il-cf-stl, I think you are making the patient sicker with your medicine. Service time manipulation is not a big enough problem that it is worth implementing a system that encourages teams to rush players through the system before they are ready. This would not only damage the major league product but the minor league product as well.

    I also think teams would never accept this even at a lower salary scale. Given that the average major league full season debut is probably 24 or 25 years old, teams would end up with only a year or two of team control.

    #82130
    jj-cf-stl
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    Probably correct cc. Pay by age is so far from the existing structure it would have 0% chance to even be considered. I’m not firm on the ages, more of an outline.

    But, look at what exists. The minors pay scale is broken. Clubs load up on the 0-3 players and tank. The parity cbt is not promoting lower budget clubs to stay in the process and spend as intended. Revenue sharing gifts clubs the $ to stay in the FA signing process, so they do the opposite and sell vet surplus value and scream why pay for marginal wins when not contending, while pocketing the $.

    Existing has so many flaws i often wonder if a complete burndown and rebuild would be healthier for all involved.

    #82137
    Brian Walton
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    Good timing…

    #82148
    stlcard25
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    Little damage control by Waino there. Still would be nice if the big leaguers stepped up and did the right thing by their minor league brethren.

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