MLB labor unrest

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  • #115899
    Avatarmudville
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    The main thing is that change is happening. Whether or not the change is for the better is still to be determined. It would certainly be best if this financial insanity could be straightened out without the whole of MLB having to tank.

    #115902
    Avatargscottar
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    I don’t see why anybody has to pick sides in this. Both the owners and the players are taking in a scandalous amount of money from the game of baseball. It doesn’t always have to be this way.

    Nobody involved in major league baseball these days is suffering financially. All this is a tussle among the merely well-off, the rich, and the really really rich. It makes me tired.

    I agree with both of these comments. Choosing one side or the other as the good guys or the bad guys is a fools errand in my opinion. Both sides are filthy rich, both sides have greedy tendencies, and both sides are digging their heels in. We always here these knee jerk reactions like “those greedy owners just want to count their billions and don’t care if the team wins or not” “or those greedy players don’t know how good they have it and they have no love of the game.”

    This is a business. A very big business. In my opinion the current CBA has favored the owners and they have have certainly taken advantage of that. There have been prior CBA’s that have favored the players. Unfortunately I see very little give and take between either side at the moment and I am concerned we are headed to a showdown that will be good for no one.

    • This reply was modified 6 months ago by Avatargscottar.
    #115915
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    BHC said:

    “Tell that to Jonathan Villar and several other guys aren’t below average, as you say.”

    As a reminder, Dexter Fowler’s OPS+ this past season was 98.

    Villar has a career OPS+ of 97 – in other words, 3% below MLB average. Please explain why the Orioles should pay him an estimated $10.4 MM per year via arbitration for that.

    Would you rather have Villar at $10.4MM or try a Sosa at under $600K, for example?

    Further, it is premature to get riled up over any of the non-tenders right now. They are free agents so could get more money and/or more years elsewhere. And if they don’t, the market is speaking as to their real value.

    Baseball has a lot of issues, but the idea of making certain arbitration-eligible players free agents who are in line to otherwise make more money than they are probably worth would not be high on my problem priority list.

    P.S. In a comparative way, increasing the minimum salary for 0-3-year players might help this situation a bit.

    #115919
    BlackHillsCardBlackHillsCard
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    Villar has a career OPS+ of 97 – in other words, 3% below MLB average. Please explain why the Orioles should pay him an estimated $10.4 MM per year via arbitration for that.

    Would you rather have Villar at $10.4MM or try a Sosa at under $600K, for example?

    If Sosa (a kid I like a lot) ever puts up 4 WAR and 3 WAR seasons then I’d laugh all the way to the bank. For $10M I’d certainly look really hard at adding Villar who is coming off a 4 WAR season, especially when we’re throwing away money on Cecil and Carpenter.

    #115920
    AvatarCariocaCardinal
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    BHC, are you claiming collusion by the owners? 29 teams declined to pluck Villar off the waiver wire.

    #115923
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    BHC said:

    For $10M I’d certainly look really hard at adding Villar who is coming off a 4 WAR season, especially when we’re throwing away money on Cecil and Carpenter.

    Concern #1: Using a player’s peak season to assess his future value is dangerous. His WAR has fluctuated considerably. Two years before, it was 0.1.

    Concern #2: Why should the Cards pay $10.4 MM for a reserve infielder when they already have Edman?

    Concern #3: Using the fact they already have two bad contracts as justification for adding another is faulty logic to its core. Three wrongs do not make a right.

    #115925
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    It is a moot point anyway, as the Orioles traded Villar to the Marlins yesterday. So, there is nothing to be mad about in this case. Baltimore did not want to pay, but Miami will.

    #115939
    BlackHillsCardBlackHillsCard
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    The entire point that is being missed is that none of this is helping the labor unrest. If you think it is you’re naive.

    #115945
    AvatarMinuteman3
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    <BHC wrote: The entire point that is being missed is that none of this is helping the labor unrest. If you think it is you’re naive.>

    Of course it is. Isn’t it about $$$$ and the more saved the more for the millionaire players. BTW, I resent being called naive. A different opinion than yours does not make all others naive.

    #115951
    BlackHillsCardBlackHillsCard
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    BTW, I resent being called naive. A different opinion than yours does not make all others naive.

    Oh please. You’re the guy on here that questions other people’s fandom on a regular bases, telling them to go and cheer for another team.

    #115953
    Avatargscottar
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    Of course it is. Isn’t it about $$$$ and the more saved the more for the millionaire players.

    The millionaire players and the billionaire owners both have their warts. There is plenty of blame to go around for BOTH sides.

    • This reply was modified 6 months ago by Avatargscottar.
    #115983
    BlackHillsCardBlackHillsCard
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    An article from Buster Olney on exactly as to what I was saying:

    #116512
    Avatargscottar
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    #116514
    Avatargscottar
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    #116515
    AvatarCariocaCardinal
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    Working just how the MLPA wanted it to work. The stars get paid and the others scramble for scraps (million dollar scraps 🙂 )

    #116520
    Avatargscottar
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    Maybe so but Manfred doesn’t work for the MLBPA.

    #117829
    Avatargscottar
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    In my opinion spending is spending so the players should be glad the spigots have finally opened, but from this article, it appears there still isn’t much trust between the two sides.

    https://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/story/_/id/28383214/winter-spending-spree-profits-mlb-players-owners-setting-up

    #119089
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    I’ve used up my free articles at the Boston Globe, but it appears that the Red Sox owner, upset about unrest over the team not spending this winter, is blaming it on the media.

    The talking points are pretty common across baseball…

    #119224
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    If you did/could not read the Boston Globe story, MLB Trade Rumors offers a summary. While specific to Boston, it is illustrative of what is occurring across MLB. Formerly high-spending teams dialing back or at least not growing payroll. For all the talk there has been about the Red Sox unloading stars, not of that has happened and it doesn’t sound like that is nearly as likely as some expected.

    The key point as I see it is the definition of “being competitive”. Competitive against what? Winning 90 games? Reaching the playoffs any way possible? Winning the World Series? Some assume that “competitiveness” can only occur with more spending without clarity on the overall goal.

    #119225
    AvatarGameCard
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    I totally agree Brian. This is why the Cardinals are an elite organization because they are competitive nearly every year.

    #119230
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Elite is a generic word, like competitiveness, that can mean different things to different people.

    #119244
    Avatargscottar
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    The Red Sox really aren’t that stable and the blame for that has to start at the top, ownership. He needs to decide what kind of business model he wants. Within the last 10 years they have 4 GM’s.

    Theo Epstein was pretty much of a win now kind of executive.
    Ben Cherington was more of a build from within kind of executive.
    Dave Dombrowski was very much a win now executive. He gutted their farm system.
    Chaim Bloom is very much a build from within executive, coming from the Rays.

    They keep going back and forth. They max out their payroll, trade away all of their prospects, win a championship, then experience a hangover and decide to build from within, lose patience with that and switch back to win now mode, then wake up and regret it.

    Rinse, repeat.

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by Avatargscottar.
    • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by Avatargscottar.
    #121942
    Avatargscottar
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    #121944
    BlackHillsCardBlackHillsCard
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    My counter offer about expanded postseason with the reality tv crap, don’t do it.

    #121945
    Avatargscottar
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    I agree BHC. The whole thing sounds gimmicky and desperate for attention, which of course means that MLB will probably do it. 14 teams in the playoffs? The top teams from each league get to choose their opponent?
    Who devised this, Vince McMahon?

    I do not like diluting the regular season down to the point where it means nothing. The NBA and NHL have already done this. The only positive would be getting rid of the silly one game playoff but the trade isn’t worth it.

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