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Bader hit .205 in 2019 which I do not consider MLB starter level talent.
In 2019, Bader would have been a 3 WAR player if you extrapolate to a full season of at-bats.
In 2018 & 2020, he would have been a 4 WAR player.
An “average” player is 2 WAR.
People around here say he’s not going to improve after 1050 AB’s? That’s two full seasons. And Wong was much worse than Bader at this point in his career.
Kscardfan, don’t try to throw facts into the equation. Some can’t handle that. A few other great cardinal players were really bad at hitting for a lot longer than bader but somehow they got better even made the hall of fame in some cases.
Defense or not, some of us don’t think a career .234 BA and .322 OBP is very impressive. And the last “full season” he played in 2019 his BA was .205 and his OBP was .314. You can’t dress that up with lipstick. Sorry.
Paul dejoung 251. 319. Tyler oneil. 229. 291. Tommy edman. 283. 337. Yadi molina. 281. 337. Lane thomas. 216. 310. Career numbers
Paul dejoung 251. 319. Tyler oneil. 229. 291. Tommy edman. 283. 337. Yadi molina. 281. 337. Lane thomas. 216. 310. Career numbers
I defiantly don’t like the O’Neill and Thomas numbers, and they have both backed off from their hot starts this spring. DeJong’s numbers might be OK for a shortstop except they have steadily declined since 2017 which was the last time he hit over .250.
DeJong is going to have to show greater consistency, and especially an ability to be productive in the second half of the season, or he may be a guy we look to move on from in the next year or two.
LACardFan:
And Wong was much worse than Bader at this point in his career.
2019 was Bader’s age 24 season and he hit .205. Wong hit .262 in his age 24 season. At age 26 he hit .285. Let’s see how close Bader comes to that in his age 26 season.
Dejong’s strikeout to walk ratio has much improved since that 2017 season. Seeing more pitches per at bat makes all the other cardinals better as it elevates pitch counts and allows hitters on deck a better preview. If he can just combine the walks and the elevated average…
I guess I don’t get all the teeth gnashing over the offense. The Cards have played every spring training game against four other teams: the Mets, Nationals, Marlins and Astros. If we were taking stock, I’d put all of those staffs as a good chance to be solidly above average, potentially top 5 in the league. The Cards play in one of the worst hitters parks in all of the minors, which they also share with the Marlins. So they’ve got that going against them. So let’s see where the Cards fit in for runs scored in their “pod.”
Washington 95
St Louis 94
Houston 88
Miami 87
New York 86Anyone worried about those other offenses? Because the Cards are right there with all of them, and actually in front of 3 of them.
Now for runs allowed:
Miami 71 (1st in the Grapefruit League)
New York 77 (3rd)
Houston 91 (4th)
St Louis 104 (8th)
Washington 107 (10th)So they’ve faced 3 of the top 4 staffs in the Florida and scored more runs against them than all but the staff that fared worse than the Cards themselves did. Seems like they acquitted themselves pretty well. They’ll be fine once the real games start.
Wait. Now spring stats do matter? I didn’t get the memo. I was basing my teeth gnashing on what the guys we are counting on have done in the past.
Don’t be so obtuse, BB. We know you are the rare poster who sticks to the “we can’t know until they prove it” mantra. 95% of the posters who are shaking in their boots over the offense are doing so because of spring training and last year’s stats, which don’t even make up a half year of stats in a normal year. My point is that even those who are convinced the sky is falling based on this spring are missing the facts of the matter.
This is an average offense, and expecting more is going to set folks up for disappointment. Likewise, to expect as bad a showing as 2020 requires a very “glass half empty” view of the team.
Willie – you again seem to comment on posters’ personal characteristics instead of their posts. Talk baseball, Willie.
If a player has certain characteristics that a poster thinks are holding back his development and production, that poster is free to talk about it. I’ve reviewed Bader’s interview and his mic’d up video, and he seems like a very cocky individual. That cockiness for a player who hasn’t really produced at a high level is a trait that can flatten a player’s learning curve. That’s not a cheap shot. It’s a humble observation of a fan who has been around sports for a number of decades. And a summarization made by a number of fans on this and other forums.25 – I’ve been a glass half full kind of guy on these forums for over 20 years. Always looking at prospects through rose colored glasses. But this outfield has been a problem for several years now.
They got Heyward, Fowler, Martinez, and Ozuna to try to patch it up, but it remains in flux. Carlson is going to be fine. O’Neill has a shot. But that’s about it. They need help from outside.I hope Bader does not push this and try to come back too soon.
That would likely lead to this becoming a season long ‘nagging’ injury…..
25 – I’ve been a glass half full kind of guy on these forums for over 20 years. Always looking at prospects through rose colored glasses. But this outfield has been a problem for several years now.
They got Heyward, Fowler, Martinez, and Ozuna to try to patch it up, but it remains in flux. Carlson is going to be fine. O’Neill has a shot. But that’s about it. They need help from outside.Perhaps the team is happy enough with the overall picture to take a shot that the outfield will be at least average? They have three good fielders out there, which should provide a floor for them to work on the bats. I’m sure that the deadline this year or this coming offseason will bring the opportunity to add a bat that will be a significant upgrade, if that’s what’s needed.
I think 2021 will be an enjoyable season for Cards fans, and especially for those of us who follow prospects more closely, as we have had a full year with no minor leagues to pore over. Should be a fun one.
Bccran you are the king of not talking baseball and everyone knows it but apparently you. Someone’s hair has nothing to do with baseball. How someone gets themself ready for at bats has nothing to do with anything. There is no right way to do it. Everyone is an individual, you just think they have to do it your way, no that’s not how it works. Constantly making jabs at a player in conversations or threads where it doesn’t even concern him is not talking baseball. Your constant picking on him amounts to bullying and I don’t like bullies and I will defend him or other cardinal players against that. You say you don’t like baders cockiness, well I don’t like posters arrogance especially when they whine after getting called out. I’m all in for talking baseball far as stats and their play on the field, but no not personal vendettas against players cause of a posters dislike of a player. If I didn’t like a player I would spend less time talking about them not more. Probably half your post mention bader in some way or another, mostly another. No other poster on this board has this issue though some like you don’t like bader. But they understand posting etiquette, they aren’t constantly nagging on him or other posters that either like him or treat him just like other players. I’m not forgetting the fact you basically called him and shildt a liar which is totally out of line. So talk baseball, we will be fine, but venture over into just a personal vendetta either against player or poster and I will speak up.
ZTR, I don’t think bader will but it also isn’t really up to him. They already said it definitely 4 full weeks if not 6. While I don’t want anyone to get injured, it does give the team more time to sort some stuff out far as the players go, anyone not performing well will be on the hot seat when he is ready to return.
Defense or not, some of us don’t think a career .234 BA and .322 OBP is very impressive. And the last “full season” he played in 2019 his BA was .205 and his OBP was .314.
You look at OBP, not BA. Also, Bader’s last 3 seasons, he has a 97WRC+, which is just 3% below average.
Bader has such a high floor, because his defense is exceptional. And as they say, defense doesn’t go in slumps.
2019 was Bader’s age 24 season and he hit .205. Wong hit .262 in his age 24 season. At age 26 he hit .285. Let’s see how close Bader comes to that in his age 26 season.
I would suggest using OBP or OPS numbers instead of batting average.
I am matching their first four seasons in the majors, not their ages. Paul DeJong and Bader came up through the minors together, and generally performed about the same levels, but DeJong won a starting job at the major league level sooner, because he had nobody blocking him.
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