2022 Wild Card Series Game 2 thread – Saturday, October 8 vs. Phillies

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  • #204051
    bicyclemike
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    Some good comments all around. I think this makes 5 consecutive post season losses. I did not realize we are 5-17 in our last 22 post season games.

    You guys said it on this series – the big guys, primarily Goldschmidt and Arenado were bad. Goldschmidt especially was totally lost in the two games and had no idea up there. The eighth inning yesterday was where they had the chance to bring this one home, and both failed. That can be the difference in post season. Post season is not about sample size, it is about what you do when you are there. It is what separated Lou Brock from being a very good player, to a Hall of Famer.

    It was one of the most memorable seasons in Cardinal history, so that is something we will have forever. It would have been nice to extend it longer, but realistically the Dodgers, Mets and Braves are in a class by themselves in the National League this year. That does not mean we could not have knocked them off, but we were not quite there.

    Next year we will need more production from guys not named Goldschmidt and Arenado. The potential is there with O’Neill, Gorman, Carlson, Yepez, and possibly Nootbaar and Burleson all candidates to give us more production. Walker is an outsider as well, but is likely a couple years away.

    Flaherty and Hudson can be better. I hope we can bring Quintana back as well, and find someone to beef up the middle relief.

    I doubt Arenado walks away as there is simply no guarantee he would find a suitor from a contending club. Unless he has a verbal agreement from the Padres or Dodgers, I don’t think we would move on. And I doubt San Diego has the salary room, and LA has Justin Turner locked up I believe. The Angels are a wasteland and still have a third baseman signed for a few years. He won’t go anywhere else, so there is little chance of him leaving.

    This will be a good club next year. Can they get past a one-and-done post season? Well, that remains to be seen.

    In the theme of a din-din related note, I put together a loaf of home made banana bread that has the house smelling good this morning. These early Fall days are the best! Would be nicer had we been talking about how we will fare against that powerhouse Atlanta ball club, but still you gotta be thankful for the simple things in life and not take them for granted.

    #204053
    Oliver
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    They are most seasons a good club. They haven’t been very good during the post season last few years. That won’t change unless they get an ace, a closer and left handed power bat.

    #204054
    ZTR
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    Remember this. 93 wins in a very bad division with three teams effectively taking the season off. The Cubs, Reds, and Pirates are all going to improve some. What will the Brewers do? So to stay at 93 wins the Cardinals will have to get a little better too. To get to 95-98 wins they will have to improve even more. Put the Dodger’s in this division and they might have won 120 games.

    Starting catcher, outfielder that can consistently contribute at the plate, front line #1 pitcher.

    Can / will the FO do all that? In the past they have not.

    Puhols 2nd half made up for O’Neill’s absence. Now what?

    #204055
    gscottar
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    There are a lot of things that goes into winning and losing baseball games. The front office has to build a quality team, the manager has to put the players in a position to succeed, and the players have to execute and come through.

    I thought the front office had a good trade deadline. Quintana and Montgomery really helped stabilize this team, however, neither are lockdown aces. Our rotation was built for 162 games but in a short series you really need at least one ace, if not two. I know Marmol is catching a lot of heat and I admit asking Helsley to get five outs is a big ask but it is something he is capable of doing and has done before. If he was truly hurt he should have said something. Batting Albert second against two tough righties was also questionable but the real reason we lost the series is that our two biggest bats fell flat on their face. They do their job and we win that series. We are a better team than the Phillies but for those two games we weren’t.

    I am afraid that 2023 will look a lot like 2022. Most of our team is already set really. We will have to see if Q and Waino come back but I am not expecting major additions although we need a number one ace, an upgrade at catcher, and a power LH bat not named Dickerson.

    And I think we will be favored to win the NLC again. The Brewers will be a division contender as long as they have Burnes and Woodruff but their budget constraints prevent them from adding too many good players. The Reds and Pirates are still a few years away from making noise. The Cubs are a bit unknown. They certainly have the payroll capacity to rebuild in a hurry if they want to. It wouldn’t surprise me to see them go after someone like Carlos Correra. Nevertheless they still have too many holes to fill to win the division next year.

    The Cards will probably win the NLC again. The question is do they make enough aggressive moves to try to compete with the elite teams in the NL. History says no.

    #204060
    1toughdominican
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    Well, it was fun while it lasted and all of you elite squad of Redbird fans certainly added to the enjoyment of following my favorite team. The fellas did pretty good until the money was pushed to the center of the table and then they simply didn’t hit. This edition came without a genuine stopper, but if you don’t push any runs across, a tandem of Gibson and Carpenter won’t even help. The last two games were certainly disappointing, but that’s always been a part of being a genuine fan. I’ve heard it said that the game of baseball is not at all unlike an incredibly beautiful woman in the sense that it’s designed and formulated to not only bring you immense joy, but also to break your heart. Boy, ain’t that the genuine truth?

    I’ll simply look forward to following the remainder of the Big League post-season with some solace in knowing that without the Cardinals on the field, I’ll at least have a reasonably healthy heart rate…Haha! I don’t really see any point of dissecting this team at this juncture, so I’ll simply try to stay warm this winter and wait until things come back to life during spring training and look forward to next season. My goodness! I’m starting to sound like a Cubbies fan…Haha!

    #204063
    BrockLou
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    They got rid of Mike Shildt for his playoff blunder, and they should do the same with Marmol.
    Time to move on

    #204066
    bccran
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    Turning attention now to the Arizona Fall League box scores everyday. Plenty to talk about if others are doing the same.

    #204068
    PugsleyAddams
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    In the theme of a din-din related note, I put together a loaf of homemade banana bread that has the house smelling good this morning.

    Enjoy your banana bread while you can, as due to a banana pandemic, bananas may very well be all but gone in about a decade, BicycleMike. Reports vary, some optimistic that a solution can be found and others saying there is little hope of eradicating the virus that is presently plaguing this planet’s most popular fruit. Our present banana (the Cavendish) came into existence in 1965 when the Gros Michel fell prey to a banana virus and went extinct. All of you age 65 and over should remember the Gros Michel, as it had a fantastic banana taste, much better than our present Cavendish variety. But our Cavendish isn’t bad, so keep your fingers crossed that it survives this banana-pandemic.

    #204072
    Wooster
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    I lost my job at the banana factory Pugs. I kept throwing the bent ones out!

    #204080
    CardsRedSox4Ever
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    Despite our early exit, this was a fun season! I’ll reflect on Marmol a little more before deciding if he should stay or not. He’s the best we’ve had since TLR and he kept the team in the running the whole way, so I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt for now. Like gscottar, I also think 2023 will look a lot like 2022, but with some improvements like a healthier Flaherty and O’Neill, a productive catcher, and most importantly, a seasoned team that now has post season experience. The big lesson for this team: the first 162 games don’t matter once you’re in the playoffs. You gotta bring it.

    #204082
    bicyclemike
    Moderator

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    I have heard that the beloved banana is an endangered species, but also have read conflicting things about that. I am a bit surprised that they stay relatively cheap.

    I slice a banana on my cereal every morning, plus have blueberries and sometimes other berries along with flax meal. I start off the day real healthy, then go downhill after that – though not always. We try to eat healthy around here, but splurge now and then as well.

    Anyway, it would be nice to see our club have some post season success. What was the last post season series we won? I do not even recall. This year I think Marmol was the biggest letdown in game 1, while Goldschmidt gets the goat horns for game two. But as with winning, it is always a team effort. Goldy was bad, but others could have stepped up and did not.

    Marmol had an odd batting order, and did not make the best move at times, but still guys could have delivered.

    Wonder if Ollie will get the heave ho for “philosophical differences” with those bad moves in game one? :-). Kidding of course – he will be back, and we should compete next year. The schedule becomes more balanced so no beating up on the weak divisional foes. But heck, the NL West was not very good either with three bad teams. Only the NL east had three decent teams, but even they had one abysmal team and another that can never afford to keep their best players.

    #204085
    1toughdominican
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    BikeMike…The ’19 NLDS was the last post-season series in which the Cardinals prevailed. You may remember the deciding game 5 of that series in Atlanta in which the Cardinals ambushed the Braves with a 10 run 1st inning. If you think we feel bad now, imagine how Braves fans felt after that early game annihilation…Haha! I also count that as the last post-season game that the Cardinals have won since I personally disregard the lost season of ’20, and the Cardinals were swept by the Senators, or whatever they call themselves these days, in the ’19 NLCS. Maybe I’ll use that game 5 thrashing as a game thread trivia question one of these days.

    #204103
    1982 willie
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    No way marmol gets the heave ho, will probably get a raise. All his moves he did were by the new analytics book which ownership loves.

    #204116
    CardinalTruth
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    The 4 winning teams got a HR out of their DH. The 4 losers did not. Interesting coincidence.

    #204119
    oldcardsfan
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    Cards and Mets eliminated, they were 6 and 12 games ahead of Phillies and San Diego. 101 win season wasted for the Mets.

    MLB needs to take another look at their playoff system, letting so many teams in the playoffs. The nature of MLB is different than the NFL and NBA. It is more likely in MLB that an inferior team will win a single game or a short series, than in NBA or NFL.

    #204124
    ZTR
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    Follow the money. No matter how much is generated it will never be enough.

    Baseball should go to 4 divisions in each league with only the division champions advancing.

    WC spots cheapen the regular season. Why do you need to play a 162 marathon if 1/2 the league advances to the playoffs?

    Money. We all pay the big fat salaries because where do you think the tv money from paid advertisements that cover the obscene salaries comes from? Consumer pockets.

    #204127
    Oliver
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    If you don’t want to lose to an “inferior” team then play and in both cases for the Cards and Mets hit like the superior team you are. This 1 for 15 from you #3 and 4 hitters is not going to cut it. The Mets got one hit last night. Superior or not they both got their butts handed to them.

    #204129
    bicyclemike
    Moderator

    Paid - Annual

    It’s true money runs sports these days. Even the so called “amateur” sports are huge money grubbers.

    And the consumer foots the bill. But the consumer must believe the value they get from the product is worth cost. Look at all of us here bantering about our favorite team. We would prefer turning over a few hundred bucks every year to engage in our favorite pastime than spend those dollars on an alternative.

    #204133
    gscottar
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    I don’t feel sorry for the Mets or Cardinals. They both had their series at home. If you can’t win two out of three at home then this is what you get. And the Mets blew at least a a 10 game lead on the Braves or they could have had a first round bye. They choked.

    #204135
    thejager
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    Didn’t want it to end like that, though as I saw someone post something to the effect of…

    any ending other than a WS ring would have been a let down and not worthy of the two/3 guys who played their last game Saturday

    Was this team going to win the Series? I would have loved it, but i think it probably would have needed magic, and that isn’t something to depend or bet on

    This team DID have magic though, and regardless of the outcome it is one of the more memorable seasons of baseball I can remember

    So many good stories and performances

    Go Cards!

    #204139
    PadsFS
    Participant

    ZTR

    Remember this. 93 wins in a very bad division with three teams effectively taking the season off. The Cubs, Reds, and Pirates are all going to improve some. What will the Brewers do? So to stay at 93 wins the Cardinals will have to get a little better too. To get to 95-98 wins they will have to improve even more. Put the Dodger’s in this division and they might have won 120 games.

    One thing to note is that the schedules change next year and you only play 13 against your division foes, instead of 18 as has been the norm.

    #204155
    blingboy
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    Having a dominant top of rotation really pays off in a postseason series. And a couple penguys who can be counted on to throw strikes.

    #204170
    oldcardsfan
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    I suppose I shouldn’t complain too much about the playoff system at least it gives the smaller market teams a better chance.
    I grew up with the great Cardinals teams of the 1960’s: Brock, Flood, Gibson. Back then up through 1968 the best team in the AL met the best team in the NL in the World Series, no playoffs.

    Unfortunately if they had that system nowadays with just the two best teams advancing it would be the Dodgers vs the Yankees most years, as they can afford the highest payroll.

    This year losing to the Phillies was not what I expected. Perhaps next year the Cards big guns will come through in the playoffs.

    #204204
    CardinalTruth
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    9 of 12 playoffs teams in top 12 payrolls. Cards we’re 12th. Tampa Bay, Cleveland and Seattle outperformed their payroll ranks.

    #204207
    bicyclemike
    Moderator

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    Well said jager. Lots of great story lines and moments from this season.

    While winning a ring is the ultimate goal, if you call anything less than that a failure then you will be disappointed most of the time. 29 teams are outside looking in. Gotta enjoy the ride, and root for the ultimate prize but don’t pin all your hopes on it.

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