Home › The Cardinal Nation Forums › Open Forum › 2022 Spring Training Game thread
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Brian Walton.
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March 22, 2022 at 12:13 pm #181152
stlcard25ParticipantI saw a video of Gorman going the other way to beat the shift on MLB.com. No doubt the purists will enjoy that.
March 22, 2022 at 3:44 pm #181154Woodford struck out 3 batters in his 2 innings of work. He has improved a whole lot during his time in the minors. He’s my pick for 5th starter until Flaherty gets back. I’m glad we have him.
March 22, 2022 at 3:55 pm #181155I was at the game Monday night and Gorman did indeed beat the shift.
On Tuesday, the Cards moved to 4-0 with a 4-3 win over the Marlins. Andre Pallante collected the final out on a nice breaking pitch. Arenado’s two-run homer was the difference.
(Confession: I didn’t see any of it. I was on the back fields watching Peoria and Palm Beach. Lots of news coming for members.)
Upcoming game schedule:
3/23 at HOU 1:05 ET RHP Adam Wainwright (0-0, 4.50) vs. RHP Justin Verlander (0-0, 0.00), No TV, KMOX only
3/24 OPEN DATEMarch 22, 2022 at 5:48 pm #181157
MrperkinsParticipantDonovans HR today was impressive. Liner to the opposite field gap that snuck over the wall. Oviedo looked good. Pretty much all the pitching was solid except Thompson giving up hits and walks.
March 22, 2022 at 8:16 pm #181163Today, late in the game I felt like I was in Springfield. Lots of familiar faces from last year.
March 22, 2022 at 10:49 pm #181165Oviedo and Woodford have real chances to join the rotation.
Either could provide unbelievable value if successful.
Both are at similar stages of development of guys like Lynn, Wacha, Garcia, Hudson, and others were when they burst on the scene by taking a rotation spot on a very good team.
The rotation log jam at Memphis:Black, Woodford, Oviedo, Liberatore, Thompson, Thomas, Pallante, and others could help the MLB bullpen.
Pallante or Oviedo could be late inning gems. Oviedo has not ever put it all together, but Pallante has never not had it all together. He is a surprisingly available Alex Reyes clone. Just when we needed one, the Memphis rotation fills up and he joins the MLB pen.March 23, 2022 at 6:43 am #181167Ovieda and Woodford dont have the talent of Wacha et al.
March 23, 2022 at 7:47 am #181168
stlcard25ParticipantI agree with CC here…Oviedo is a decent pitcher but he’s not in the same league as Reyes. He has a straight fastball and even worse command. But if the case is that he can provide similar value as Alex in his career, I agree with that. And I’m not much of a Woodford believer as some others are but he did pitch fairly well last year. I think they’re ok depth pieces, but we need some better starters if we want to advance past the first round anytime soon. I hope Liberatore becomes one of them and we can get Flaherty back to go with Hudson and Matz. Limp through this year and look for the splash after Yadi and Waino’s $26M is off the books for 2023.
March 23, 2022 at 8:04 am #181169bccran
Participant25 – Next year’s rotation is probably already set, barring injuries –
Flaherty, Matz, Hudson, Mikolas, and Liberatore.March 23, 2022 at 8:07 am #181170That looks like a really solid rotation – if they can all stay healthy…
March 23, 2022 at 8:17 am #181172
stlcard25Participant25 – Next year’s rotation is probably already set, barring injuries –
Flaherty, Matz, Hudson, Mikolas, and Liberatore.I don’t think we can fully depend on Mikolas, given his track record. I’d be fine with upgrading for a longer term solution anyway as keeping Flaherty after next year will be tenuous.
March 23, 2022 at 10:06 am #181181Corrections: Donovan’s Homer was not a liner that snuck over; it was a wind-blown pop up.
Oviedo and Woodford are quite similar to Martinez, Wacha, Lynn, Hudson, and other young success stories in size, experience, and pedigree. Carlos was smaller and each possesses a unique repertoire, but the other points hold true.
Oviedo’s fastball is not straight. It’s hard riding action is at the root of his command issues.
I claimed Pallante not Oviedo had a repertoire similar to Reyes.
Verhagen looks like a rotation piece more than I would have guessed when signed for next year.March 23, 2022 at 12:21 pm #181186
stlcard25ParticipantOviedo’s fastball is not straight. It’s hard riding action is at the root of his command issues.
Oviedo’s got 4 data points on movement, 2 from 2020 (horizontal and vertical movement), and the same two from 2021. The colors are hard for me to discern exactly what they mean, but here’s the data:
2021 Vertical Movement: 19.2″ (4.7″ below avg)
2020 Vertical Movement: 18.9″ (-4.9″)2021 Horizonal Movement: 6.1″ (-1.2″)
2020 Horizontal Movement: 3.6″ (-3.6″)So he was a bit better in 2021 but just based on what I can tell, it looks like his fastball went from bottom 5-10% in movement in 2020 to bottom 10-25% in movement in 2021. If he can continue to improve, perhaps then it would be fair to call his fastball something other than “straight.” Right now, I’d call it just that. He’s a #4/5 or bullpen guy, for me.
March 23, 2022 at 12:31 pm #181187bccran
Participant25 – The Cards will be paying Mikolas $17 million in 2023. The last year of his contract. Rest assured they will do everything they can to get some use out of him.
March 23, 2022 at 12:46 pm #181188
stlcard25Participant25 – The Cards will be paying Mikolas $17 million in 2023. The last year of his contract. Rest assured they will do everything they can to get some use out of him.
I am not assured by that fact. Lol. I hope that Miles looks good this year and justifies a spot, but the latest track record is not great.
March 23, 2022 at 4:33 pm #181190bccran
ParticipantMiles just needs to get healthy and stay healthy. He was healthy in 2018. Let’s look at the proven ceilings of our staff –
Mikolas (2018) 18-4, 2.83 ERA
Waino (2021) – 17-7, 3.05 ERA
Hudson (2019) – 16-7, 3.35 ERA
Flaherty (2019) – 11-8, 2.75 ERA
Matz – (2021) – 14-7, 3.82 ERAMarch 23, 2022 at 8:16 pm #181194I wouldn’t count on Miles going the extra mile here in 2022, by putting up anything close to 2018 numbers. I’m probably being unfair to Miles here, especially with his recent injury setbacks. But it just grates your nerves when some of these guys do everything both physically and mentally correct to put together that one big season…..then after signing their multi-year deal, are never able to replicate the feat again. One day long after we all have gone to that big diamond in the sky, medical science will have to ability to pinpoint to great success these types of individuals who are prone to fleece.
March 25, 2022 at 7:11 am #181240VerHagen makes his first start. Mikolas on the back fields. #stlcards auditions for fifth spot gets its first main stage start. pic.twitter.com/rX6UBMulZk
— Derrick Goold (@dgoold) March 25, 2022
March 25, 2022 at 10:53 am #181242Someone please tell me that is just a spring training lineup. And someone please tell me that is not really close to the everyday lineup we will see in 2022.
March 26, 2022 at 8:07 am #181267bccran
ParticipantIsn’t the lineup pretty well set?
Edman
Goldy
TO
Arenado
Carlson
Dickerson/Yepez
Yadi
DeJong/Sosa
BaderMarch 26, 2022 at 8:49 am #181268Upcoming games
Sat 3/26 vs. MIA 1:05 ET LHP Steven Matz (0-0, 0.00) vs. LHP Trevor Rogers (NR) BSM/KMOX
Sun 3/27 at NYM 1:10 ET RHP Dakota Hudson (0-0, 0.00) vs. Jacob deGrom (0-0, 0.00)/Max Scherzer (0-1, 1.80) MLB.TV (WPIX)/KMOXMarch 26, 2022 at 10:33 am #181273
stlcard25ParticipantCarlson is very clearly the best leadoff option for anyone who takes scoring runs seriously. Edman and his barely over .300 on base percentage won’t cut it, so either he’s gonna have to up his game or be moved down in the order. I truly hope that Marmol puts Carlson at leadoff and leaves him there.
March 26, 2022 at 11:59 am #181277
MrperkinsParticipantI feel like Edman can improve his OBP. He is a smart, Stanford guy and I think he knows if he doesn’t he is out of a starting gig. The difference between a .300 OPB and .330 is only 3 times on base in 100 at bats. I feel like his high rate of doubles and his stolen base ability make up for the 3 times he doesn’t get on. Just my opinion.
March 26, 2022 at 12:34 pm #181279My lineup :
O’Neill
Carlson
Goldy
Arenado
DH
Molina
Sosa
Edman
BaderI think this would keep Tyler from going homerboard. He has the attributes I like to see in a leadoff hitter. Speed at the back end of the lineup leading in. Will never happen.
March 26, 2022 at 12:34 pm #181280
stlcard25ParticipantI feel like Edman can improve his OBP. He is a smart, Stanford guy and I think he knows if he doesn’t he is out of a starting gig. The difference between a .300 OPB and .330 is only 3 times on base in 100 at bats. I feel like his high rate of doubles and his stolen base ability make up for the 3 times he doesn’t get on. Just my opinion.
I think the big thing is that Edman just isn’t much of a threat from the left hand side, so pitchers don’t fear him enough to pitch carefully. Guys like that have an OBP ceiling that’s quite a bit lower than a player with more power ability.
As for the doubles, Carlson’s second half numbers prorated to Edman’s plate appearances would give him 42 doubles, or one more than Edman had. I really do like Tommy as a swiss army knife type of player, but over the course of a season he just lacks the sort of pop that Carlson does (and I think Dylan will get even better) and his steals just won’t make up the difference. Put it this way…Edman hitting first takes PA away from Carlson, Goldy, Arenado, and O’Neill. Is Tommy really good enough to take all those guys’ contribution down by 30ish PA apiece?
It’s Edman as the “second leadoff man” at #9 for me, easily.
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