October 18, 2020 at 12:20 pm #144862mudvilleParticipantPaid - Annual
There was not, and there is not, a GM anywhere in the game who would not have made that trade. If what Eduardo Perez says is really true, then the Rays front office is loaded with geniuses, while every other front office is incompetent. IMO, Eduardo Perez is a company man. Give him credit for that.
The Rays were primarily interested in finding a cheap (always cheap for the Rays), right handed bat for their lineup because they were sorely lacking one. They were also in ‘win now’ mode and willing to overpay for that cheap, right handed bat, hence Liberatore. Arozarena was added to round out the trade since the Cardinals were insisting on Liberatore. The Rays didn’t even have a spot in their lineup for Arozarena at the time, so they sent him down to their AAA club to start off.
This postseason, as everybody knows, Arozarena is clobbering some of the absolute best pitchers in the game who, themselves, are pitching in the drama of a postseason. Something’s wrong with this picture. I don’t know what it is, but it’s just not making sense. Arozarena was not even a Top 100 prospect.October 18, 2020 at 1:06 pm #144864
Do you think Arozarena is a flash in the pan?
At the level he is, yes. Howver, I think he can be who I said he was before…Tommy Pham 2.0. He’s a guy who could give you 15 WAR in his pre-free agent years. He’s hitting the ball hard right now, and we will see where he’s at when pitchers adjust their approach to him.October 18, 2020 at 1:09 pm #144865
There was not, and there is not, a GM anywhere in the game who would not have made that trade.
Agreed. An old DH and an older RH OF prospect in a system full of them for a left handed front of the rotation starter? Sign me up this off-season too if we can swing it.
I’d also say that very few (BHC was one of them) would have chosen Arozarena to keep over O’Neill. I still would be split if I had to choose one of them today, and that’s after Tyler’s worst season possible and Randy’s all world season.October 18, 2020 at 1:22 pm #144867PadsFSParticipantPaid - Annual
Euro DandyEuro Dandy
This is probably how the Angels fans felt after the 2011 postseason.
Okay, I’m probably having a “duh” moment, but somebody help me out with this one.
I meant Padres. Sorry, was thinking of the Cards later trade of Freese to the Angels.October 18, 2020 at 1:40 pm #144868
If the Rays really wanted Arozarena over Bader, O’Neill, and Thomas, what does that say about Arozarena? And when our offense was so weak why did we need another pitcher down stream when we’re so deep in LH pitching with Kim, Thompson, Cabrera, Gomber, etc.?
As I reminded readers this week, last winter, the Cardinals had ONE-FIFTH of their 40-man roster (eight) tied up in outfielders. They needed to clear the jam to use the roster spots to fill other needs, which they did in part by dealing two 40-man outfielders off the back end of the roster.
That they got a top pitching prospect may have been dependent on what TB offered. Or maybe Liberatore graded out the best of what the Rays would trade. If the day ever comes that the Cardinals have too much MLB-proven left-handed pitching, it will be a first – and a very pleasant problem to have. (P.S. Kim is only under contract through 2021 and could be gone before Liberatore and Thompson even reach St. Louis. Relievers are a separate discussion.)
A key point is that most anyone who reviewed the deal at the time believed the Cardinals got the best player in the trade – and that is precisely how to win trades. Scouts all over the game seem to have underestimated Arozarena. Credit TB for perhaps seeing something that no one else did.
After the fact, take exception to WHO the Cardinals traded if you like. That is “low hanging fruit” and very fashionable to do right now. But if one suggests they did not need to trade ANYONE or that Liberatore was a bad return, it would indicate a lack of understanding of the situation the Cardinals were in.October 18, 2020 at 3:04 pm #144876gscottarParticipantPaid - Annual
At the time of the trade most of the higher ranked prospects in the Cardinal minor league system were position players, not pitchers. The Cardinals were trying to shore up the pitching prospect side which was smart.October 18, 2020 at 3:14 pm #144878bicyclemikeModeratorPaid - Annual
Arozarena was not even a Top 100 prospect.
Sometimes that happens – guys figure it out. Pujols, Keith Hernandez, Trevor Rosenthal – it’s not an exact science. It looks like Arozarena put it together just before we dealt him, and Tampa is reaping the rewards.
Usually getting a top tier lefthand pitching prospect is a smart move, and it still could turn out that way for St. Louis. The one thing that makes it tough in this particular deal though, is Arozarena looks to be exactly what the Cardinals have been looking for since the tragedy that happened in losing Oscar Tavares. And there is a second factor, which is dealing for pitching carries a higher risk than position players, as pitchers get injured quite often (eg Alex Reyes).
Just got to give it time and see if this deal evens out, or turns the Cardinals way.October 18, 2020 at 4:17 pm #144881
Tonight’s game is Ian Anderson vs. Dustin May and it starts at 7:15 CT on FOX and FS1.October 18, 2020 at 4:17 pm #144882bccranParticipant
At the time of the trade, the Cards were weak on offense (especially in the outfield), and deep in pitching.October 18, 2020 at 4:19 pm #144883
bccran, what part of a full roster including eight outfielders is not understandable?
Most teams do not want multiple spare parts for one better player, but that is what the Cards appeared to accomplish.
Last winter, the Cardinals were one starter short and subsequently used one of the 40-man spots cleared to sign Kim. It turned out to be a great signing.
You now know with the benefit of hindsight that O’Neill and Thomas would not step up during 2020. NO ONE knew that last offseason.October 18, 2020 at 6:56 pm #144890
Name any pitcher in the Cards system who projects as a front of the rotation talent and is signed (or retained) beyond 2023. You have Flaherty, Carlos, Reyes all becoming free agents after that year. Hudson will be after 2024, and he’s good but still needs to improve his control to become that ace level talent. Thompson doesn’t quite meet that level for me. Rondon, Oviedo, etc are nice pitchers but none higher than a #3 for me. That’s why Liberatore.
Like Brian said, no one projected Arozarena to be this good. Someone posted that his max exit velocity jumped 5 mph this year, so he did some work to improve his power. Meanwhile, we know Mo really liked Thomas (who had a better 2019 with St Louis than Arozarena) and O’Neills power and speed is pretty alluring.October 18, 2020 at 7:09 pm #144891
I believe I heard on the FOX pregame that tonight is the first winner-take-all in MLB history with two rookies as the starting pitchers.
Back to the discussion the other day, would you prefer days off that might enable aces like Kershaw and Fried, for example, to pitch in Game 7?
I am good with this format, but I suspect not everyone agrees…October 18, 2020 at 7:45 pm #144899
Gonsolin took over for May in the second for the Dodgers, but they are already down 2-0 in the second inning.October 18, 2020 at 8:27 pm #144905
two out rally ties it 2-2October 18, 2020 at 8:30 pm #144906
Anderson at 72 pitches after 3 IPOctober 18, 2020 at 8:41 pm #144908
BB, BB, bloop, 3-2 BravesOctober 18, 2020 at 8:43 pm #144909
Feeling like the Dodgers are going to run out of pitchers before this is over….October 18, 2020 at 8:51 pm #144911
Turner couldn’t have played that better, well done.October 18, 2020 at 9:18 pm #144917
This Betts guy is pretty good.October 18, 2020 at 9:18 pm #144918
Basepaths have been littered with Dodgers but only 2 runs.October 18, 2020 at 9:49 pm #144921
This is not a well-played game, but it is very entertaining. 3-3 in the sixth on PH HR by Kike Hernandez, hitting for Joc Pederson against the LHP Minter.October 18, 2020 at 9:57 pm #144923
With the infield in, that was a gamble by Taylor, and he’s out.October 18, 2020 at 10:48 pm #144934PugsleyAddamsParticipantPaid - Annual
A little excessive hotdogging by Betts on his 9th inning double. Not a huge display, but maybe just enough to propel Atlanta. Braves coming to bat in a 4-3 LA ballgameOctober 18, 2020 at 10:52 pm #144935PugsleyAddamsParticipantPaid - Annual
Dodgers Win It!October 18, 2020 at 10:54 pm #144936
Very enjoyable series. Braves should be proud of their play.
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