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Seems overdue to have this thread, so as suggested by one of the readers, here it is.
Goold draws the connection to getting a LHH, but there seems no reason that Martinez could not be traded for LHP instead.
From @dgoold on @TMASTL: The #STLCards have explored trades to move Jose Martinez. They've talked with Tampa. They could make a need-for-need trade in which they do a deal with a team who needs a right-handed bat who can play OF and 1B for a utility left-handed bat.
— Tim McKernan (@tmckernan) December 6, 2018
This article from DRaysBay mentions some names of LHH IFs who might be available from Tampa Bay, but they aren’t very exciting. Probably speaks to why Martinez hasn’t been traded yet. Low demand.
I think this is where the Cardinals need to put their thinking caps on:
Trade JMart & Gyorko for Joe McCarthy and Nick Solak (who has about 3 2B’s ahead of him).Then, the Cardinals can sign Marwin Gonzales.
And actually, I guess the ideal swap is Gyorko + JMart for McCarty + Brandon Lowe.
Two right-handed hitters for two left-handed hitters. All four players are on their respective 40 man rosters, and Tampa’s is full.
Rather keep Martinez as a bench player than trade him for a minor leaguer with slim and none chance for a major league role.
JMart is a real enigma. .300 hitters with power who make the league minimum are hard to come by. The fact that he has so little trade value also complicates matters. I think we all thought he could easily be flipped to an AL team for a really good LH reliever. Apparently that isn’t the case. I know that Hummel has argued all along that we should just keep him.
The only way I want Martinez back is for the NL going to the DH, or as a pinch hitter. He is a AL/DH type of player.
Cardinals27
Participant
The only way I want Martinez back is for the NL going to the DH, or as a pinch hitter. He is a AL/DH type of player.Funny you bring that up. The new Mets GM mentioned the other day that part of their thought process in getting Cano was that the NL could have the DH before Cano’s contract was over.
I’ve got no problem keeping Martinez around as a bench player, unless he fits into a trade package that fills a real need. As one of you said earlier, .300 hitters with power and making peanuts don’t grow on trees.
LOL at that justification for Cano.
I can see Brodie around the conference room table: “OK, folks. Give me some talking points as to why we wanted Cano.”
Assistant: “Tell them he will be a great DH.”
Brodie: “But we don’t have the DH in the NL.”
Assistant: “That’s OK, tell them it is coming. It has worked for years. We told them this when we re-signed Cespedes. Same with Bruce. They eat it up.”
Brodie: “Brilliant!”
If Jose is only going to fetch a mediocre prospect, I’m in favor of keeping him. He costs nothing and you can find pinch hitting and DH at bats with an occasional start if injuries occur. He doesn’t seem fazed by not having regular starts either, so he’s an excellent bench bat.
If I were Mo, I would be getting reliable information on just when the NL will get serious with the DH when assessing a deal for JMart. It is definitely coming – the game cannot go too much longer trying to accommodate “designated pitchers” with 13 man staffs, and no designated hitter. That is simply not sustainable, as we have seen. NL teams have to make a roster move between the big club and minors a couple of times a week it seems to get through a season.
So either rosters expand, or rules change. The easiest rule change is the universal DH, and thus it is probably just around the corner.
Plus with the investment made in pitching today, NL exec’s have to be biting their collective lips every time a pitcher bats or runs the bases (remember Waino’s achilles injury?). I am surprised NL honchos are not lobbying for the DH.
Stats show pitchers are batting less often, and less successfully on a continuing basis. The universal DH will be here soon, so before we dump Jose lets see if we can get some inside information on whether it will occur in 2019, 2020, or 2025.
Waino’s achilles injury was coincidental to running the bases. Not caused by it.
I will always prefer the strategy of the NL as it exists today to the DH.
Mo is in the meetings in which the DH is being discussed, so he already knows what is going on. Even if the owners can agree, it would need to contracted with the players. So it is not going to happen at least until the next CBA. Best case, it would go into effect four years from now.
Expanding rosters is nothing I’ve ever heard even being whispered about. Players would be all over it, but owners? No way.
P.S. Mo gets asked about the DH every year at Winter Warm-Up. In January, he said he is still against it, though he acknowledged momentum.
Derrick Goold has insisted it is imminent for about the last decade (only a slight exaggeration).
Me, too. I know the pundits say that its inevitable, but I wish it would not happen. No DH for the NL.
Looking over those “JMart Trade Possibilities”, Tampa seems like a sensible trading partner, while Houston does not, for obvious reasons. Not trying to be glib here, but has JMart ever been tested for allergies to leather? From an athletic standpoint it doesn’t make sense that this man is so hideously awful on defense. I’ve seen some poor defenders over the years, but Jose takes the cake. He’s hands down the worst I’ve ever seen.
Manfred addressed the DH at the All-Star Game in July:
MLB commissioner Rob Manfred, on the possibility of the universal DH: "The most likely outcome right now remains the status quo."
— Ryan Fagan (@ryanfagan) July 17, 2018
Commissioner Rob Manfred on universal DH: "If you get rid of the DH in the National League, there is a brand of baseball that is done. I think there is going to be some hesitation with respect to that."
— John Shea (@JohnSheaHey) July 17, 2018
That Manfred quote makes no sense. There is no DH in the National League. Was that a typo and should be “American” League?
I think he is saying if the DH comes to the NL, the “brand” of baseball with the pitcher batting is no longer part of MLB.
That would be true, but there are a lot of “brands of baseball” that are done, or near extinction – independent leagues, complete games for pitchers, slash-and-speed guys, 2 1/2 hour games.
The DH is a product of specialization. When you get to the top level of any endeavor, specialization is the norm. Yo0u can’t fight it. At the lower levels of baseball, pitchers batting will still be the norm.
I think we knew what Manfred meant, whether he misspoke or the reporter erred. My take is that he was reflecting the collective opinion of the only people who matter – the NL owners. For example, DeWitt, who is one of the most influential owners, has been against it all along. If he changed his mind, then I would take note. Maybe over time, the Jeters (who I am just guessing is pro-DH) will prevail over the old timers, but that could take years. Until there is that kind of movement, I consider the talk to be mildly interesting background noise, but that is about it. To come full circle, by the time anything actually changes, Jose Martinez could have grandchildren!
When Jose Martinez does make and error, usually with the glove, it is about as bad as can be. He looks like a guy that is just clowning (Bozo) around, for example, like when the ball hits him on the glove and falls to the ground. However, the vast majority of the time, he catches the ball and gets the out. With the acquisition of Goldschmidt, the Cardinals are clearly in ‘win now’ mode. I’m not sure they could find a better pinch hitter than what JMart would be. He hits both lefties and righties very well, and I don’t think he would ever complain about being a bench player and pinch hitter. Tampa Bay does look like the team that would love to have him for their DH. He’s cheap, he’s controllable, he bats right-handed, and he is a good teammate. And, did I mention that he’s cheap. The problem is what can Tampa Bay offer St. Louis that would make the Cardinals a better team this season? I don’t see where that’s possible because all Tampa Bay has to offer is inexperienced rookies.
Well Brodie is a former agent and now a GM so he might have more inside info on the DH than we have. The current CBA expires after the 2021 season so who knows what could be in it. I would imagine the union would be in favor of the DH in the NL.
The players union is still peeved over last year’s glacial market. They also don’t like a lot of the proposed pace of play changes. There seem to be some developing dark clouds brewing over the next CBA so it makes sense that the DH could be a bargaining chip to throw at the players to smooth things over.
I wouldn’t rule it out so cavalierly.
stlcard25
Participant
If Jose is only going to fetch a mediocre prospect, I’m in favor of keeping him. He costs nothing and you can find pinch hitting and DH at bats with an occasional start if injuries occur. He doesn’t seem fazed by not having regular starts either, so he’s an excellent bench bat.I agree with this.
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